.308 150gr TTSX for elk?

[Londerko]

JA smith-
I really like the Grendel.... But I do not believe the Grendel has the velocity, mass or energy needed to elk hunt with ANY bullet. 123gr going 23-2400fps...
Unless you are only head shooting elk in ranchers fields.
I hunt remote wilderness areas with no motorized vehicles at high elevations with deep canyons. So every step a wounded elk takes down a canyon is about 10 steps uphill for me with a heavy pack frame LOL! :)
I have shot a lot of Roosevelt and Rocky MT elk and I shoot 30cals. With good bullets I have no problem going with a smaller caliber, but a Grendel is definately pushing it.

[JASmith]

Literally tons of Elk have been harvested in Europe and in the USA with the 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser.

A large portion of these have been with 130 -140 grain classic lead core bullets.

The difference between the two is that, with some bullets, the Grendel might get to 300 yards with enough velocity to reliably open while the Swede will with most bullets and go a little further.

And yes, there is a huge difference between the way lead bullets and all-copper hunting bullets perform in game. I spent a long time trying to find a relationship to no avail. Then, someone sent me a link to the papers at rathcoombe.net that are referenced in the Ideal Bullet Weight (http://shootersnotes.com/ideal-bullet-weight/) paper. That led to the paper on mesolithc (5,000 - 10,000 years BC) hunting arrow sizes vs game. That, combined with Fackler's work on wound ballistics, was enough to point me in the right direction. A few hundred tests into wet newsprint and phonebooks by folks like the author at rathcoombe.net, Sciuchetti, and BC Steve with Schichetti calibrating the phonebook data with a number of fresh-killed deer carcasses helped a lot in developing an empirical relationship between the four major classes of bullets.

[Luke45]

saying a grendel is an elk cartridge is like saying a 223 is a mule deer cartridge.

[JASmith]

Ach!!! Ya got me!

I am in the camp that the .223 should never be considered a mule deer cartridge.

Yet MidwayUSA lists no less than 17 different loads for medium game and mule deer are in that class...

[JASmith]

JA smith-
I really like the Grendel.... But I do not believe the Grendel has the velocity, mass or energy needed to elk hunt with ANY bullet. 123gr going 23-2400fps...
Unless you are only head shooting elk in ranchers fields.
I hunt remote wilderness areas with no motorized vehicles at high elevations with deep canyons. So every step a wounded elk takes down a canyon is about 10 steps uphill for me with a heavy pack frame LOL! :)
I have shot a lot of Roosevelt and Rocky MT elk and I shoot 30cals. With good bullets I have no problem going with a smaller caliber, but a Grendel is definately pushing it.

Good points.

The whole objective of the "Ideal Bullet Weight" exercise is to strike a good balance between on bullet harvesting ability given a good hit against the challenges of ensuring a good hit in the first place. Both of these are, in the end, crap shoots. The odds are that even the heaviest bullet will only wound and that the best shooter will get a poorly placed hit on occasion. That's just the way things work.

The ten-second to incapacitation (animal faints from loss of blood pressure) rule of thumb underpinning the methodology depends on hitting the right arteries. The larger bullets up the odds of this happening but they typically go into heavy-kicking ammunition.

There are folks who have taken quite large animals with 22 rimfires and hornets but they don't necessarily have to work in steep wilderness canyons.

So, if you feel comfortable with your ability to get a 165 - 200 grain bullet into the boiler room using a large 30 caliber better than 90% of the time, then go for it! Your bullet will have about as good a chance as any for anchoring the animal before he gets very far.

BTW there are some who have taken Elk with the 123 grain SST but the methodology suggests that a lead-core expanding bullet should be 160 grains or heavier to have near-certain anchoring with a good hit. Bullet construction is as important as weight, which is why the methodology also suggests that a 120 grain partition or 100 - 110 grain all-copper expanding bullet would do about as well.

[Londerko]

Good points.

The whole objective of the "Ideal Bullet Weight" exercise is to strike a good balance between on bullet harvesting ability given a good hit against the challenges of ensuring a good hit in the first place. Both of these are, in the end, crap shoots. The odds are that even the heaviest bullet will only wound and that the best shooter will get a poorly placed hit on occasion. That's just the way things work.

The ten-second to incapacitation (animal faints from loss of blood pressure) rule of thumb underpinning the methodology depends on hitting the right arteries. The larger bullets up the odds of this happening but they typically go into heavy-kicking ammunition.

There are folks who have taken quite large animals with 22 rimfires and hornets but they don't necessarily have to work in steep wilderness canyons.

So, if you feel comfortable with your ability to get a 165 - 200 grain bullet into the boiler room using a large 30 caliber better than 90% of the time, then go for it! Your bullet will have about as good a chance as any for anchoring the animal before he gets very far.

BTW there are some who have taken Elk with the 123 grain SST but the methodology suggests that a lead-core expanding bullet should be 160 grains or heavier to have near-certain anchoring with a good hit. Bullet construction is as important as weight, which is why the methodology also suggests that a 120 grain partition or 100 - 110 grain all-copper expanding bullet would do about as well.
I totally get what your saying about being able to use a lighter, therefore faster bullet if it is heavily constructed. A 30 cal 180gr partition has always worked very well for me on elk. I am not overly sensitive to recoil, but then again I don't believe a proper elk cartridge should be based upon recoil. Elk get VERY BIG here in Oregon and can be very tough to kill and live in some extremely rough terrain.
I recently got a new savage rifle and have been getting into more long range shooting, (an upgrade from the trusty old 30-06) and have been playing arround with different bullets. I think it is very interesting how somepeople swear by Barnes, others swear by Bergers, and they are both on totaly different ends of the spectrum and both kill in different ways. Yet both have a very devout following. I think it's safe to say which side your on ;) LOL

[handirifle]

I agree that the lighter Barnes' bullets can be used, but I bet money if you talk to Barnes themselves, THEY will not recommend the 110 for elk. The 130 would be another story, and I would suggest that IF the OP had not already stated that he uses and likes the 150.

Let the man hunt with his 308 and 150's and let it rest there. He wasn't looking for other calibers really, just confirmation of his choice. The 308 with a 150 TTSX will penetrate as well as a 300 with 180's out to 300yds IMHO. Energy and velocity numbers will be different, but at those ranges, they will die fast on well placed pass thrus.

[sageratslayer]

Hey,

I selected the 150's for the reason of dual elk/deer hunting. They seemed light enough I could push them fast (2944fps ave) and take out deer (which I did last fall) and elk. I like the 150's because I feel that expansion in a TTSX or TSX is key, and they will penetrate given their weight retention. If people call a 308 or a 30-06 an elk caliber with 165 or 180 gr. partitions, they can't argue with a 150 that sheds no weight. A 180gr partition that sheds 40% of its weight is 108gr by the time it is done. With my rifle dialed in with them, I figure they'll be fine for anything I need to hunt. Thanks for the info!

--SRS