270 rum

[scooterf79]

Oh ok, gotcha on the case capacity of the 2. I can't imagine any of them being shot alot so I wouldnt really even think about that much. Thats the problem with the weatherbys it seems...the goofy expensive components.
What type of accuracy are you getting with your rigs?

Sean, I'm starting to think the same thing :D

Scooter

[scope eye]

They are all 1/4 to sub 1/2, but I don't have they optics to match the rig, I never have any funds left to buy nicer scopes, someone lent me there 10x50-60 Sightron and a 42 powered Nightforce, they wanted to see if there was a difference and there was, I was ragged holing them, oh well some day.

Dean

[yobuck]

In the mid 70s i bought a new #4 hart action with a standard magnum boltface. At that time hart wouldnt chamber any gun for other than a factory cartridge.
It was never my intent to have them chamber it anyway as i knew their policy when i ordered the action and barrel.
I took it to Howard Wolfe and had it chambered in the 7x300 Weatherby wildcat.
It was a heavy bench gun weighing about 30# with the 30" barrel. About 5 years later i convinced Howard to rebarrel the gun to the then wildcat 30x378.
At first he was very reluctant to do it on a hart action as the bolt was essentially a 700 rem. He agreed only because he knew i would not pound
every last ounce out of it. At that time we had to neck down 378 brass to 30 cal.
He turned down the rim of 100 cases for me so they would work on the standard mag boltface.
He also insisted i not load more than 110 gr of h570 surplus powder which at the time was the only good powder for that cartridge. He installed a 36"
Wiseman barrel which was one of a very few makers of 36" barrels at that time. most of the well known names of today didnt exist then.
In essence what he built for me was a very early version of the 300 rum which also didnt exist then. The gun shot lights out with that 110 gr load behind a 200 gr smk.
Velocity was + 3350. At that time there were 2 groups of long range hunters in pa. The ones having 30x378s and the other being ones who wanted them.
Since that time ive bought another gun built on one of very few of Howards own large 3 lug actions. Once other suitable actions such as Bat became available he stopped building them.
Im sure the liability aspect was an issue he wasent comfortable with also. Duplexing or moonshing powder wasent unheard of then.
Velocity is a wonderful thing for a long range gun. But velocity combined with weight and B C will win every long range race.
There is always a tipping point regardless of cartridge and velocity where weight and B C will take over.
A 30x378 with a 200 gr smk @ 3500 fps will smack a rock at 1500 yds with about 150 1/4 min clicks on the dial.
That can vary from day to day and gun to gun due to scope hgt ect.
The 220 gr or 240 gr smk at that distance wont do nearly as well from the same gun. In other words the velocity of the 200 gr trumps the B C of the other 2 at that distance.
Now bring along a 338 whatever that will push a 300 gr at 31 or 3200 and its lights out for the 30x378 regardless of bullet.
Notice ive mentioned 2 cartridges, a 30 cal and a 338. All the others will be scattered along the roadside well before 1500 yds at least in a hunting or practicle sence.
And yes im aware you can hit large rocks at a mile with a 223.
I can furnish names of guys who necked down 378 cases to 6.5 and 7mm 40 years ago. I can also save you some trouble, for hunting they were a flop.
What were wittnessing today with the (new) hotshot cartridges like the various 6.5s is the reinvention of the wheel for a new audience and hopefully some gun sales.
Granted there are much better components than back then, but thats across the board for all cartridges.

[scope eye]

Good read, thanks,

Dean

[scooterf79]

Accuracy sounds really good out of those Dean

I agree theres a point of diminishing returns when it comes to efficiency and the like, but its still fun to mess with overbore stuff :). I completely see where youre coming from comparing those cartridges. Thanks for the info, quite interesting
Id love to try shooting at longer range out to 1k someday, provided ive got the right equipment. Not competitively or anything like that just to see how Id do on paper or milk jugs or whatever, but around here where I live its hard to get that kinda range. My local range is 400, which is fun but theres always 5, 6, 8, and so on....
Scooter

[yorketransport]

The RUM case is a lot of fun, it's just expensive to play with. The cost is mostly just in the brass!

I recently shot out a Nitrided 300 RUM barrel on my Striker after 1325 shots. The throat is so badly fire cracked that it started to raise pressures unpredictably. When you sit down and figure the cost of brass, powder, primers, and bullets it's amazing the amount of money that went through that barrel.

Then there's the 375 BME which is a 375 RUM improved with the shoulder pushed forward and long throated to use the 350gr Sierra MK. That one has about 280 rounds through it so far and is still going strong. Again, figure the cost of brass (I actually use Norma 404 brass), bullets (when you can find the 350 gr MK) and powder (113gr of H1000 every shot) and it's not a shoot all day sort of caliber. But when you hit a rock at 1200+ yards you know it!

The 6.5 Badger that I just started working with uses an improved 338 RUM case (it's very similar to the 6.5 Allen Magnum). This gives you the same internal capacity as a full length RUM case but in a length that will feed from a Remington long action. So far the Badger is giving 3450fps with the 160gr Matrix VLD over a case full of US869. That puts it at 17.1 MOA (confirmed by actual shooting) to get to 1000 yards from a 100 yard zero. That smokes the 26 Nosler and most other long range calibers. While the 338 Edge and my 375 BME are in that same ball park as far as drop, they both need muzzle brakes to be comfortable to shoot. The Badger doesn't have a brake and doesn't need one. The obvious down side is barrel life, but like Dean said, that's a lot of shooting with any of the RUM based rounds.

The funny part about the super mags is that they are so unnecessary. My favorite 1000 yard plinker is a 19" barreled Striker in 284 Win throwin 168gr Berger VLDs at 2640 fps. It takes 34.5 MOA to get to 1000 yards, but it still gets there eventually! Much past 1100 yards and things get pretty tricky with it though since it stats to go subsonic depending on conditions.

I honestly don't need any of these barrels on this rifle. It was just a good deal on a Jim Borden built rifle. Plus it came with 500 7mm RUM cases! That was worth 15% of the cost alone, but adding on reamers, the 1000 Wildcat bullets, and 250 of the 300gr OTM Bergers, I couldn't pass up this rifle.

Now maybe I can build something that will actually make use of the Terrapin range finder I bought. It's hard to find guns that can make it out past 2500 yards, but I have a rangefinder that will! It's a shame I'm not a good enough shot to make any hits that far away!

Andrew

[FW Conch]

Great post Andrew! Things are really getting interesting around here! Not that I will ever enter into this "unknown zone". There is simply no opportunity or need. But it sure is a good read!

Thanks :)........Jim

[scope eye]

In reference to your first sentence in your post Andrew, read my signature, and on top of that they volume of powder that you go through, is no bargain either, when I use to use a powder drop to load, and see how much the level of powder would go down after every flip of the lever, I would shake my head and beads of sweat would form on my forehead, that and you get a whopping 68 rounds per pound of powder, now that I have a Charge master I set it and it starts churning powder into the tray, I know this will take a while, so I have time to go take a leak, get a beer, make myself a sandwich, play with the dog, check what's going on Savage Shooters, then when I finally get back to the reloading it has just stopped churning out powder, perfect timing, on to the next round,LOL shooting a RUM based cartridge gives you that same feeling inside as when you see a pretty girl walk by, it makes it all worthwhile.

Dean

PS: This one of the better posts, I have read and had a chance to participated in on this forum, we need more of these.

[yorketransport]

I'm curious what the max practical bullet weight will be with the 1-10" on my barrel? I'd really like to get into weights above 150 but I'm not sure that the twist will stabilize them. It might be a case of limiting bullets to the 150 class. That may make it hard for the 270 to keep up with the heavy 6.5 and 7mm bullets at long range.

The up side would be the ability to use slightly faster powders. US869 is great but burns dirty. H50BMG is questionable in the small bore super mags. Now if they would just make an H50bmg SSC I'd be set!

[scooterf79]

A lot good info in this thread! Cant imagine shooting that far, although I'd love to someday....12, 15, 2k yds....wow!
If we only had what guns were necessary it would be so boring :P
Scooter

[scope eye]

I'm curious what the max practical bullet weight will be with the 1-10" on my barrel? I'd really like to get into weights above 150 but I'm not sure that the twist will stabilize them. It might be a case of limiting bullets to the 150 class. That may make it hard for the 270 to keep up with the heavy 6.5 and 7mm bullets at long range.

The up side would be the ability to use slightly faster powders. US869 is great but burns dirty. H50BMG is questionable in the small bore super mags. Now if they would just make an H50bmg SSC I'd be set!

You do realize we are talking RUMs in this post, you can shoot any bullet you want the higher FPS will translate into higher RPM and will stabilize the bullet no problem we are talking the big leagues here mine is an 11 twist and I did not even think twice about it.

Dean

[scope eye]

A lot good info in this thread! Cant imagine shooting that far, although I'd love to someday....12, 15, 2k yds....wow!
If we only had what guns were necessary it would be so boring :P
Scooter

99% of my shooting is done at 600 Yards or less, I just like little to no bullet drop and explosive impacts, "red mist effect"

Dean

[sixonetonoffun]

Ever find yourself randomly ranging stuff after a good day shooting? Say a crow in the parking lot on the stroll into work? Keeping on topic ya can visualize ranging a rum!

[yorketransport]

You do realize we are talking RUMs in this post, you can shoot any bullet you want the higher FPS will translate into higher RPM and will stabilize the bullet no problem we are talking the big leagues here mine is an 11 twist and I did not even think twice about it.

Dean

Matrix reccomends a 1-8" twist for the 175 VLD. Even at 3200 fps that's on the edge of stable. I'm not looking for hyper speed 100 grain bullets. I want the heaviest vld I can stuff down the barrel.

Just after I bought my terrapin, I did drive around trying to find stuff to range. It's only fun though when you get up to the 1800+ yard mark.

Andrew

[scope eye]

Matrix reccomends a 1-8" twist for the 175 VLD. Even at 3200 fps that's on the edge of stable. I'm not looking for hyper speed 100 grain bullets. I want the heaviest vld I can stuff down the barrel.

Just after I bought my terrapin, I did drive around trying to find stuff to range. It's only fun though when you get up to the 1800+ yard mark.

Andrew

1800 yards, that would three county's where I live. LOL

Dean

these are my twist rates.

25 14T
6.5 10T
270 11T
7mm 12T
30 17T
338 10T

[yobuck]

i can reach out to a mile from the front yard at our camp. Problem is leaves on the trees till about mid nov. blocks off most of it.
we can pick openings and shoot out to 1200 all summer at rocks however. Theres a single track railroad across the road in the
valley below the camp. Only used for hauling soft coal from the mines further west. Many years back they rerouted the tracks about
100 yds to straighten the line and eliminate a bridge across a wide stream. That left us with a very nice 400 yd range. We could stretch that out to 500 or more in a half day with a dozer.
But why bother when we can do that shooting at the hillside across from the yard. We never fool around with stuff like tannerite.
First off its takes too much effort to climb the steep hillside and set up targets or anything. So we just bang away at rocks at least till deer season.
Last fall on the last day of turkey season which is the Sat. following thanksgiving a bunch of guys were in the yard tuning up for opening day of buck. Around a point off to the right came a whole flock of turkeys. Its not easy counting a big flock of turkeys as their always moving. Thats also a reason its not easy hitting turkeys at long range. But for sure there were more than 20 of them.
Well you never saw more excitment or heard more shooting in a short time in all your life. My son who is 50 came running into the camp and grabbed a rifle off the rack.
He announced we would be eating turkey the whole deer season when it was over. You know how many they got? Well how about none.
Of coarse they didnt just stand around and get shot either but kept moving further away up the hill.
My nephew hit one on his first shot with a 7 mag and it went flopping around on the ground. We knew a bobcat was living in a big rockledge over there as we had seen him several times.
The bobcat got into the act also chasing those turkeys and ultimatly made them fly off. When my nephew went over to retrieve his turkey it was gone. He looked
all around for it and found where he hit it etc. No doubt the bobcat found a free lunch. You could walk around the woods all your life and never wittness anything like that.
Glassing presents those type things on a regular basis. So Andrew, if you want to maximise the fun of those rifles get a good set of large tripod mounted binnoculars. Then follow that vapor trail
out to 1500 or so and watch it hit a rock. You will soon see which ones are the big league cartridges.
Yes you can use a good spotting scope. You can also close one eye and use a $1500 set of hand binnoculars. Try that and you will begin to understand what im saying.

[pighunter284]

When do you all have the time for so much fun LOL. I'm lucky to shoot every other weekend