Bolt Head Swap/ID Problems

[zedsdead]

I bought a used Savage a while back chambered in 223AI. It is a blued long action single shot (solid bottom) action. I do not see any numbers stamped on it but was told it was a 116 by a guy at the range. A year ago I bought a 6BR barrel from Jim at NSS and a bolt head (308) and barrel nut wrench from a member on this site. I finally got some free time and started my very first barrel swap project.

I got the barrel nut off and the action free from the barrel without too much trouble and was pretty excited. I then took the bolt apart and was getting excited about how well I was doing. That's when things went south.

Problem #1: The original bolt head (223) is longer, although the length difference between the bolt heads does not seem to be a hindering factor as the distance from the back of the lugs to the center of the retaining pin is the same on both bolt heads. It also has a notch cut into the part that inserts into the bolt body. There is a small indention on the outside of the bolt body that looks like it was done with a mechanical punch. This caused an protrusion on the inside of the bolt body. The notch in the 223 bolt head allows it to get past the protrusion on the inside of the bolt body. The 308 bolt head does not have a notch cut into it so it will not fit into the bolt body.

Problem #2: The firing pin will not fit into the new (308) bolt head. The part that strikes the firing pin fits but the step-up section is not even close. The measurements on my firing pin are .067 on the small end and .140 on the step-up section.

Anyone know off the top of their head what I've got here? I want to have the option of switching barrels back and forth in the future. What do I need to be able to do so? Sorry for the long post, I just want to make sure I don't end up with something I don't need or with something I don't. Thanks in advance for any help.

Jason

[dcloco]

You are mixing long action parts with short action parts. The bolt head length difference and the firing pin diameters are change between some of these.

[zedsdead]

So I need to get a bolt head for a long action? Any special model I need to look for?

Jason

[lostart]

I believe a .270 will work

[ellobo]

Welcome to the wonderful world of Savage changes. As they say in Yokahama, "Rottsa Ruck".

El Lobo

[GUNFANATIC]

I've had the problem you refered to as the indentation in the bolt body. You can either dremmel it out or order the correct bolt head for that from SSS. I opted for the later.

[docsleepy]

I'd go read the technical details page on the SSS site on this site, and also some tech archive article on bolts. The SSS people can help you out making sure things fit. Use a caliper to measure the firing pin diameter of what you've got, and know those numbers when you call them. There are specific days and times (on their site) when they answer the phone. They aren't alwasy quick to answer email. But when you reach them, very helpful.

[BillPa]

I bought a used Savage a while back chambered in 223AI. It is a blued long action single shot (solid bottom) action. I do not see any numbers stamped on it but was told it was a 116 by a guy at the range.

Problem #1: The original bolt head (223) is longer, although the length difference between the bolt heads does not seem to be a hindering factor as the distance from the back of the lugs to the center of the retaining pin is the same on both bolt heads. It also has a notch cut into the part that inserts into the bolt body. There is a small indention on the outside of the bolt body that looks like it was done with a mechanical punch. This caused an protrusion on the inside of the bolt body. The notch in the 223 bolt head allows it to get past the protrusion on the inside of the bolt body. The 308 bolt head does not have a notch cut into it so it will not fit into the bolt body.

Problem #2: The firing pin will not fit into the new (308) bolt head. The part that strikes the firing pin fits but the step-up section is not even close. The measurements on my firing pin are .067 on the small end and .140 on the step-up section.

Anyone know off the top of their head what I've got here? I want to have the option of switching barrels back and forth in the future. What do I need to be able to do so? Sorry for the long post, I just want to make sure I don't end up with something I don't need or with something I don't. Thanks in advance for any help.

Jason




OK,lets take one thing at a time.

"I bought a used Savage a while back chambered in 223AI."

The bolthead in that case would have a .378" bolt face.

"was told it was a 116 by a guy at the range"

A 116 would be a stainless long action with a 5.062" screw spacing.

"It also has a notch cut into the part that inserts into the bolt body. There is a small indention on the outside of the bolt body that looks like it was done with a mechanical punch."

At one time the bolt head shafts were "keyed" to prevent installing it 180 out. The indentation is the "key" that corresponds to the slot in the bolt head shaft. The newer bolt heads - bolt bodies are not keyed.


"Problem #2: The firing pin will not fit into the new (308) bolt head. "

The newer firing pins are .095" in diameter , the old pins were .140", the portion of the forward the adjustment nut to the point its stepped down to .068" on both diameter pins. In addition to the smaller pin diameter the pass through hole in bolthead retaining pin was also reduced. The the smaller diameters are used to add some "meat" and increase the strength of the retaining pin.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2s7c9c6.jpg

Now what confuses me somewhat, I'm not aware of any model 116s having a .140" pin and the keyed bolthead.

Just a guess, but I'm thinking you have is whats refereed to as a "J" action with the 4.522" screw spacing. It a single shot (solid bottom, no mag cutout.), keyed bolthead, .140" pin and a 11x action with a .378" bolthead.

If you could take some measurements( bolt body length and action screw spacing) and take a few picture and post them. I would help us identify what you have.

Bill

[Netz]

Scroll down to the bottom of this thread and I have the measurements and picture of a "J" series bolt and receiver.
http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,16720.0.html
Curt

[sharpshooter]

The transition period of the keyed bolt heads and fat firing pin was a long one. I was never able to put a definate time stamp on that change over, so it is very possible.

[zedsdead]

Thanks to everyone for their time and recommendations.

BillPa - I'll try to get some pics taken and posted tomorrow. I'll also check the screw spacing tomorrow and post that as well.

Not sure if it makes any difference but it is in a BVSS stock. The laminated one with the black on the forend tip.

Jason

[zedsdead]

The screw spacing on the action is 5.04 and the bolt body length is about 6.15. My caliper are only 6" so the bolt body measurement is probably not exact. The action has a F598XXX number on it. The baffle has one lug about twice as long as the other.

Jason

[Blue Avenger]

http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,3883.0.html

Ok, you do have a true long action.
the longer leg on the baffle is to shorten the stroke of the bolt. Not a problem with the 6BR.
a .30-06 size bolt head will set you up. the notch can be removed from the tube or added to the head.
Do not loose your long .223 bolt head, they are no longer made!

[zedsdead]

Ok. Thanks to all for the help. So all I need to do is dremel out the notch on the inside of the bolt body and get a .473 bolt head for a long action?

Jason

[sharpshooter]

Yep, that way you can change out bolt heads in the future with out the hassle.

[zedsdead]

Sweet. I guess I'll look around to see if anyone wants to trade a short action bolt head for a long action one. Thanks again for all the help guys. You've saved me a lot of time, hassle and money. When I get the right part and get it put together I'll let you know how it works out.

Jason

[Whelen Man]

I just ran into the same problem with my first bolt head swap on an older long action 110. The bolt head fit fine but didn't have the slot and the firing pin didn't fit. I milled a slot in the bolt head like the original and ordered a new smaller diameter firing pin assembly from Midway as well as a bolt head retention pin with a smaller diameter hole to fit the new smaller firing pin. All went together well but I wound up spending about $25 extra for the parts.

I didn't like the idea of grinding on the bolt body which is the more expensive part so I opted to mill a small slot in the bolt head. I've got a small mill and it's easy to do on the cheaper part.

[zedsdead]

I got all the parts I needed and finally got some time yesterday to get it all back together. I was getting pretty excited until I ran into my next road block.

The locking lugs on the new bolt head are too long! I have a 308 bolt head for a short action and one for a long action and the lugs on both are longer than the lugs on my 223 bolt head. Naturally, the bolt won't close.

Is there a special bolt head I need to be looking for or will I need to have my other bolt head machined to fit? Is that safe?

Jason