Bonded bullets

[emtrescue6]

Ok just one more point before we close this out, have you ever seen a time where "under penetration" was the cost of a lost or wounded animal when were talking about 200lb and under animals? becasue i never have, but i have seen them run and run and have to be tracked from overpenetratin poin holes

Yes, I actually have...on a Blacktail deer in SW WA I watched my brother have a total bullet failure from a 180 Remington Core-Lokt from a 30-06 @ 100 yards. Had it not been for my other brothers fast followup with his 7mm the deer woulda been a complete loss...I have pic somewhere I will post if i can find them.

I've never lost an animal from over-penetration...blood trails are always a plus.

[Luke45]

Can you explain what the bullet did? Rem core locts out of a 30-06 usually retain 80+ percent of thier wight, even on double shoulder shot
Elk.

[Stockrex]

Gentlemen, pls ask yourself how the hunters from the days when bonded bullets were not an option hunted?
Maybe the American bison can comment on the need for a bonded bullet?

[emtrescue6]

Can you explain what the bullet did? Rem core locts out of a 30-06 usually retain 80+ percent of thier wight, even on double shoulder shot
Elk.

The bullet came completely apart...shattered on the shoulder (didn't break or penetrate) like a safety glass window hit with a punch.

[Luke45]

I have a hard time believing that a 180 gr bullet @2700 fps would splat on the outside of a blacktail and not kill it, it must have glanced off or something, they physics don't add up

[Luke45]

What kid of bullet did the 7 mag have? And where did it hit?

[emtrescue6]

Gentlemen, pls ask yourself how the hunter for the days when bonded bullets were not an option hunted?
Maybe the American bison can comment on the need for a bonded bullet?

No doubt lots (millions even) have been taken previously before premium bullets came to life, I suspect the lost animal % was probably lightly higher...much like John Nosler's Canadian moose hunt that pushed him to create Nosler bullets.

It's the same thing I tell my friends that come hang at my cabin on the Kenai to fish....sure you can use cheap tackle, you'll just have to get use to crying more often than others.

[Luke45]

No doubt lots (millions even) have been taken previously before premium bullets came to life, I suspect the lost animal % was probably lightly higher...much like John Nosler's Canadian moose hunt that pushed him to create Nosler bullets.

It's the same thing I tell my friends that come hang at my cabin on the Kenai to fish....sure you can use cheap tackle, you'll just have to get use to crying more often than others.

They were probly way better hunters than us ;)

[emtrescue6]

What kid of bullet did the 7 mag have? And where did it hit?

It was a Nosler Partition...believe he was using 160g at the time...it hit on the opposite shoulder quartering away....through the shoulder, 1 lung and down the length of the animal and exited out just in front of the opposite read quarter....jumped 10' in the air, took 2 steps and died right there.

[emtrescue6]

They were probly way better hunters than us ;)

There's that likelihood too ;)

[Luke45]

I bet that coreloct was some type of quality control issue or
Something, they are usually extreamly slow opening billets at 30-06 speeds.

[bflee]

While i use different rounds today because of caliber, the core loct bullet has never failed to put meat in the freezer. I know there are better bullets, but it works. I think alot of people overthink things alot. Put it in the right spot.

[jb6.5]

I usually kill 8 to 10 deer a year along with an annual average of a 100 hogs or so.
I do a lot of bullet testing on the hogs so this is what I've found.
A 233 or 22 250 will kill like a big gun with Barnes ttsx. I've used several different bullets and by far their the best in the small cal.
7mm rem mag and wsm, on hogs, accubonds are hard to beat. Same for a 270 wsm.
When the rpms start slowing down, say 308, 7 08, 30 06 ect. A cup and core bullet works fine. Bt, sst, interlock so on and so forth.
Only exception is my creedmoor. It has a 1-8 twist and the bonded stuff seems to do best. Not saying the others don't work, just not as good.
On deer, it don't really matter. Conventional bullets work fine. The bonded bullets seem to do a bit less damage, the Barnes even less than bonded, but still kill. Main thing is put it where it counts, they'll have a hard time packing it off.

[Bullitt 454]

I'm sorry I even got involved in this thread. If you don't know how Barnes perform then don't comment about them. They open quicker than almost any bullet made. Unless you are shooting them at ridiculous ranges and don't maintain 2000 fps. They don't leave huge gaping exit wounds because they are not designed to. They DO massive damage internally and they DO PENETRATE like they are designed to do. If you want to use cheap bullets it's a shame.

[Luke45]

If you want to use cheap bullets it's a shame.

So if I use a Sierra game king on a 150lb deer it's a shame? Would it be less shameful if I shot it with a swift A frame?

[bflee]

Really? A shame? I have shamefully slain deer, hogs, coyotes and such all my life. Never shot a barnes, berger, or a nosler. Dead is dead.

[Luke45]

Really? A shame? I have shamefully slain deer, hogs, coyotes and such all my life. Never shot a barnes, berger, or a nosler. Dead is dead.

+1 right on ;)

[thermaler]

I'm sorry I even got involved in this thread. If you don't know how Barnes perform then don't comment about them. They open quicker than almost any bullet made. Unless you are shooting them at ridiculous ranges and don't maintain 2000 fps. They don't leave huge gaping exit wounds because they are not designed to. They DO massive damage internally and they DO PENETRATE like they are designed to do. If you want to use cheap bullets it's a shame.Copper has an inherently higher tensile strength than lead--which means after opening it is going to do a better job of staying together. Some tsx's open at lower velocities (Tipped tsx's) giving them more punch--and can significantly expand the would channel size. I'd be very careful about making sweeping generalizations about a particular bullet type. That said--I like accubonds for no other reason than they always seem to group well in whatever hand-load I concoct for whatever caliber--but I use plenty of other bullet types as well. Now how many of you use all-lead semi-wadcutters? : )

[yorketransport]

They do need to be going fast but the discussion was about medium sized game not elk.

The point was that for those of us who hunt a variety of game under different conditions, it's best to choose one bullet that will work for everything we encounter. I may use my375 Ruger to hunt everything from rabbits to elk. A 235gr Speer bullet would be fine for small game, deer, and small bear. I sure wouldn't use it for elk. Not to say that it wouldn't work, just not my first choice. Instead of sighting the gun in for each different load I can just sight it in for the 260gr Accubond and be done with it. Same goes for the 338s. When it comes to the smaller rounds like the 243, 25-06, 300 Savage and such, a premium bullet can improve the penetration that otherwise may be lacking.

My comment may not apply to people who only hunt animals in the 300# and under class. I'd consider a black bear medium sized game, but around here the range from 150# to over 300#. I'd rather be over gunned for the small ones than under gunned for the monster!

If you shoot a standard cartridge with a conventional cup and core bullet and it works well for you, then have at it. I typically shoot whichever bullet shoots best in my guns. Those are usually the higher end bullets. If I can get .75 MOA from a 150gr Power Point out of my Savage 99 in 300 Savage then I'll go with that. It just so happens that the 168gr TTSX will do that, so that's what I shoot. Same for the 225gr Sierra Pro Hunter versus the 225 TSX in 338. The Barnes bullets have always shot better in my 338s.

As for the buffalo, they were killed with large caliber, heavy bullets at moderate velocity. Comparing the effectiveness of a 45-120 and a 500+ grain cast bullet to a 30-06 with a 180gr TSX is like comparing apples to refrigerators.

Andrew

[bflee]

Wow you do shoot some oversized guns! That must be why I have never needed any of those rounds. All I have is 30-06, 270, 308, and 6.5CM. What are you shooting again?