F-T/R Stock - What features work best?

[Gyro]

I have started building an F-T/R rifle based on a Savage Target action and need some help with the stock. This is my first F-Class build. It would seem that an F-O vs. an F-T/R stock would have some differing needs.

With an F-O rifle being able to utilize a front rest and rear bag, it can be built more like a BR rifle and slide in both the front and rear bags with minimal to zero need for the shoulder to be in the butt plate and allowed a forearm up to 3” wide. The F-O rifle also is allowed more weight up to 22 pounds.

On the other hand, an F-T/R rifle is limited to 18.18 pounds, which also includes the attached bipod. Having little experience using a rear bag and a bipod when shooting form the prone, it would seem that the rifle is not going to slide in the rear bag and therefore a BR style stock would not be beneficial as in an F-O rifle. Also, with the forearm being attached to a bipod, the width would not need to be nearly as wide as an F-O rifle. It would also seem that having an adjustable butt-plate to consistently fit the shoulder would be of benefit as well.

What I currently have in mind is a laminated Prone Culbertson stock from Richard’s Microfit Stocks.
http://www.rifle-stocks.com/ProneBlackLamRHSide10inch72dpi.JPG
I am thinking that the following modifications would really help make a fine F-T/R stock:
- Four way adjustable butt-plate adjusting for length of pull, rotation and elevation of the butt-plate pad.
- Adjustable cheek rest / comb to allow for adjustment in elevation and windage.
A few things are in question.
- Is there a benefit/need for a rail on the underside of the forearm to attach the bipod to?
- What width forearm should a good F-T/R stock have?
- I see some people using a thumbhole stock but I have never used one. Is there an advantage to this over a conventional prone stock when shooting F-Class?

Thanks for reading. Any suggestions are much appreciated.

[bushwackr]

I am inquiring about the same stock , I think it would be lots more comfortable to shoot not having your hand stuck in a thumbhole. I like them for hunting but it doesn't suit me for prone shooting, that's just me. I 100% agree on the adj cheekpiece and the adj butt plate. I am going to do the 3 1/2 width it sounds like it has 3" flat and rounded corners. My opinion on the rail is that's its a good deal you can adapt a bipod to it, and you can run it on a rest with out worrying about a stud buggering up the pad on a possible many hundered dollar rest if a person decides to shoot f/o . It also looks like to me that with the height of the cheek piece a person will have to have it all the way lowered and possible cut a relief in the front so your bolt can be removed. That's about what I have picked up on the stocks so far

[CharlieNC]

You are looking at the right issues. First in terms of the butt section I suggest you get one which is flat, parallel to the forearm, in order to achieve vertical control when you are setting up on the bag and during recoil; the rifle is going to slide. If you are unsure if both F open and FTR are in the future, then get a wide flat fore-end with a recessed rail so you can do both rests. I just got a Manners T4A with an adjustable cheek rest, and it is a wonderful stock. However I've had two Choate Tacs for a couple of years and they are very suitable for prone using a bipod (very rigid forend); I have the tall cheekpiece on both and they fit me well; it also has recoil pad spacers to adjust length. Choate also has a v-block for bedding which fits well, and should be all you need. For prone the vertical grip is very popular for comfort; in terms of thumbhole it depends on where you want to place your thumb when shooting. I prefer mine on top, and you can also do this with a thumbhole. If you don't want to spend $200 for a Choate, the Boyd Tacticool looks to have similar features but I haven't seen one in person.

[rdog52]

I'm in the same boat - trying to put together a rig to start shooting F/TR and am stuck on what style stock to get. It seems that in F/TR you would want a little slope to the bottom of the stock to allow slight elevation adjustments with the rear bag. Is not true or logical?

[Gyro]

I'm in the same boat - trying to put together a rig to start shooting F/TR and am stuck on what style stock to get. It seems that in F/TR you would want a little slope to the bottom of the stock to allow slight elevation adjustments with the rear bag. Is not true or logical?

The angled bottom of the buttstock for F-T/R would be necessary for a fixed height bipod. Utilizing a bipod such as the Sinclair F-class third generation makes this unnecessary with an easily adjustable height adjustment knob. It took me a few times of looking at bipods to figure that out. Having a firm rear bag and a height adjustable bipod would seem to make the shooters world just that much better. Not having to think about squeezing the rear bag is just one less variable when shooting. This is making the BR stock look more appealing and would allow the shooter to move up his rig to F-O class should he/she desire.

[CharlieNC]

I haven't seen a bipod that is not adjustable? Some (Harris et al) just take a while fooling with the telescopic legs. It's worth learning to squeeze the bag in order to translate the technique to hunting.

[Gyro]

I haven't seen a bipod that is not adjustable? Some (Harris et al) just take a while fooling with the telescopic legs. It's worth learning to squeeze the bag in order to translate the technique to hunting.

You're right Charlie, the Harris and others like it are adjustable. What I had in mind wasn't exactly what I wrote. It would seem that the best way to use a bipod that doesn't have an adjustment knob or another easy way to adjust its height would be to use the sloped angle of the buttstock and sliding the bag back and forth to raise and lower the muzzle. Fine tuning could then be accomplished by squeezing the rear bag. Having a buttstock with a flat bottom and a bipod like a Harris would not seem to be very user friendly.

[rdog52]

The angled bottom of the buttstock for F-T/R would be necessary for a fixed height bipod. Utilizing a bipod such as the Sinclair F-class third generation makes this unnecessary with an easily adjustable height adjustment knob. It took me a few times of looking at bipods to figure that out. Having a firm rear bag and a height adjustable bipod would seem to make the shooters world just that much better. Not having to think about squeezing the rear bag is just one less variable when shooting. This is making the BR stock look more appealing and would allow the shooter to move up his rig to F-O class should he/she desire.

Can you adjust the Sinclair F-Class third generation with your left arm without coming off your rifle? Thanks for the help!

[CharlieNC]

I do a "coarse" adjustment with the bipod, then squeeze the rear bag slightly as necessary. You will get better (more consistent) results with a flat butt, one reason is you always want to keep the bag in the same location every shot. Otherwise upon recoil it is more difficult to maintain elevation with a sloped butt; my only rifle like that is 17HMR and it is apparant with that little recoil.

[Gyro]

Can you adjust the Sinclair F-Class third generation with your left arm without coming off your rifle? Thanks for the help!

I'm sure that you could, it would depend on how close the bipod is mounted to you. Not having used one before, it is just a guess. That might be where an accessory rail inletted into the forearm would be helpful. An accessory rail would allow for easy bipod adjustment back and forth. I do remember seeing a picture of a front rest that a guy built and it had a flexible cable or two that would allow him to make adjustments from position. Might be an interesting option to look into for a bipod.

[Gyro]

I do a "coarse" adjustment with the bipod, then squeeze the rear bag slightly as necessary. You will get better (more consistent) results with a flat butt, one reason is you always want to keep the bag in the same location every shot. Otherwise upon recoil it is more difficult to maintain elevation with a sloped butt; my only rifle like that is 17HMR and it is apparant with that little recoil.

Charlie, it looks like we are on the same page on this. It just seems to make a whole lot of sense to have a prone, bipod mounted F-class stock set up this way and I just don't see it as much as I would have thought. Not having shot with this type of stock before I just wasn't sure.

[CharlieNC]

I started prone shooting seriously Jan last year and have over 1500 shots learning so far. This type stock is absolutely the best for stabilizing the natural-point-of-aim, plus less disruption upon recoil. Managing bipod hop is another matter; more-so your position and hold given a good stock - I've just recently "mastered" that.

[Texas Solo]

I have that exact stock on my F/TR rifle. LOVE IT !!! I differ with CharlieNC in the use of a flat bottom butt stock. I started with a Choate Tactical stock and always struggled to get the rifle back to where I wanted it after the shot. My range has a less than desirable firing line, not level in any direction. I found myself constantly screwing on the elevation knob of my Sinclair F class bipod. That in turn caused the adjustment mechanism to develop a lot of slop. Sinclair made good on it and replaced it N/C. Now, since buying the Richard's stock, I leave the adjuster turned all the way down, don't even use it. You can save some $$$ by not buying the adjustable bipod if you're going with the wood angled stock. After the shot I now just put a little shoulder into the rifle and it returns to exactly where I want it. It slides nicely on the bipod skis, and you can still squeeze the bag for fine adjustments. I couldn't be happier with my decision to build the Richards Microfit stock.

On the stock, I had only minor work to do. The high cheekpiece was too high to allow for bolt removal. You'll need to sand it down some. I sanded front to rear with emphasis on the front, actually taking zero off the rear. It's so gradual nobody can notice. Next I had to dremel a tiny bit to get the bottom metal to fit (mine's a DBM) Lastly I had to dremel a tiny bit from the inletting to allow the sear to depress far enough for bolt removal. Install pillars and bed it. All in all, it was very little work and I'm very pleased with the stock.

My total weight of rifle with a 6-24x50 Viper scope and sunshade, 1" Shilen bull barrel, and Sinclair F Class bipod is 17.4. I was sweating that when one day our match director decided to weigh rifles! I'm glad he did, now I know.

A few things are in question.
- Is there a benefit/need for a rail on the underside of the forearm to attach the bipod to?
....my Choate had one, but I always put the bipod in the same place anyway. So...no.
- What width forearm should a good F-T/R stock have?
....I went with the 3" because I wanted the lower profile, but not too wide. I love it.
- I see some people using a thumbhole stock but I have never used one. Is there an advantage to this over a conventional prone stock when shooting F-Class?
....personal preference. I don't think there's an advantage or disadvantage.

http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y316/Texassolo/My%20stuff/100_2007_zps7750495d.jpg (http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/Texassolo/media/My%20stuff/100_2007_zps7750495d.jpg.html)
http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y316/Texassolo/My%20stuff/100_1999_zps6334c328.jpg (http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/Texassolo/media/My%20stuff/100_1999_zps6334c328.jpg.html)
http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y316/Texassolo/My%20stuff/100_2000_zpsc68b7a87.jpg

[CharlieNC]

Stock fit and use is certainly a personal matter, and what works best for one doesn't for others. It's good to get different REASONS why so OP's can think about the right issues. Triggers fit in this category too!

[hank440]

Does anyone know how much that stock weighs ? we all need to make weight in F T/R

[jsthntn247]

I have that exact stock on my F/TR rifle. LOVE IT !!! I differ with CharlieNC in the use of a flat bottom butt stock. I started with a Choate Tactical stock and always struggled to get the rifle back to where I wanted it after the shot. My range has a less than desirable firing line, not level in any direction. I found myself constantly screwing on the elevation knob of my Sinclair F class bipod. That in turn caused the adjustment mechanism to develop a lot of slop. Sinclair made good on it and replaced it N/C. Now, since buying the Richard's stock, I leave the adjuster turned all the way down, don't even use it. You can save some $$$ by not buying the adjustable bipod if you're going with the wood angled stock. After the shot I now just put a little shoulder into the rifle and it returns to exactly where I want it. It slides nicely on the bipod skis, and you can still squeeze the bag for fine adjustments. I couldn't be happier with my decision to build the Richards Microfit stock.

On the stock, I had only minor work to do. The high cheekpiece was too high to allow for bolt removal. You'll need to sand it down some. I sanded front to rear with emphasis on the front, actually taking zero off the rear. It's so gradual nobody can notice. Next I had to dremel a tiny bit to get the bottom metal to fit (mine's a DBM) Lastly I had to dremel a tiny bit from the inletting to allow the sear to depress far enough for bolt removal. Install pillars and bed it. All in all, it was very little work and I'm very pleased with the stock.

My total weight of rifle with a 6-24x50 Viper scope and sunshade, 1" Shilen bull barrel, and Sinclair F Class bipod is 17.4. I was sweating that when one day our match director decided to weigh rifles! I'm glad he did, now I know.

A few things are in question.
- Is there a benefit/need for a rail on the underside of the forearm to attach the bipod to?
....my Choate had one, but I always put the bipod in the same place anyway. So...no.
- What width forearm should a good F-T/R stock have?
....I went with the 3" because I wanted the lower profile, but not too wide. I love it.
- I see some people using a thumbhole stock but I have never used one. Is there an advantage to this over a conventional prone stock when shooting F-Class?
....personal preference. I don't think there's an advantage or disadvantage.

http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y316/Texassolo/My%20stuff/100_2007_zps7750495d.jpg (http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/Texassolo/media/My%20stuff/100_2007_zps7750495d.jpg.html)
http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y316/Texassolo/My%20stuff/100_1999_zps6334c328.jpg (http://s1025.photobucket.com/user/Texassolo/media/My%20stuff/100_1999_zps6334c328.jpg.html)
http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y316/Texassolo/My%20stuff/100_2000_zpsc68b7a87.jpg

I am seriously considering one of these stocksy my self. How long was your wait. I have heard horror stories about long waits, chainsaw inletting, and no customer service from Richard's. I am still considering them anyway.l