17HMR Groups

[surfcitydude]

I have a model 93BTSS purchased about 6 months ago. So far, the best groups I can shoot with it are about 2" at 50 yards and 6" at 100 yds. My club has a 100yd. indoor range, so weather isn't a factor. Ive tried Hornady and Winchester ammo, both with the same results. Gun seems to function nice and smooth, but I can't get very good results. Any clues?

[mikein]

Sounds to me like you have something loose in the sighting system: base(s) or rings. Possibly a bad or loose fit of action to stock. Or an optic that's gone south on you. At 50 yards, with that rig and that nifty little caliber, they ought to all go in one hole.

[surfcitydude]

I'm using a Vortex scope that I even sent to vortex to have it checked,and all was fine. Using factory mounts and Burris Signature Zee rings, all the best mounts. As I said, I'm stumped. Next stem might be to send the gun back to Savage, but I'm not expecting much from them.

[Hotolds442]

My group sizes shrunk considerably when I started sorting my ammo by weight.

[whiskey]

What's your experience with bolt guns? Or scoped long guns in general?

[Maztech89]

To say they should go in 1 hole is ridiculous, but 5 in a half inch at 50 should be expected and realistic. Have you tried different ammo and checked the crown? You aren't a guy that constantly cleans the bore are you? Pull it from stock and check under bottom metal for crushed stock or breakage as it's a small area and easy to do if your ham fisted. Make sure the rings really are tight to the bases as some factory ones are a bit narrower than spec and can keep a ring from squeezing it tight even though the screws are.

[mikein]

maztech89, maybe in your world 5 shots in one hole at 50 yards is ridiculous, but I've got 3 different 17HMR's that take me there every time I bring them to the range. The caliber is capable of that degree of accuracy, but it needs some help from the firearm, the optics and the shooter to make it happen.

[bflee]

My 93 bull barrel 22WMR shoots great. 50 yards is usually one ragged hole. This group is at 100 yards. They are not all this tight at 100, but I can get them inside 1" easily with the 30 grain Hornady. All other rounds I have shot dont even compare. The CCI is lucky to stay inside 1 1/2". http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a617/bflee1/2013-08-26182230_zps13d31f60.jpg (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/bflee1/media/2013-08-26182230_zps13d31f60.jpg.html)

[surfcitydude]

What's your experience with bolt guns? Or scoped long guns in general?
I also have a Savage in 22-250 and a Cooper in .204 Ruger, both of which I use for prairie dogs. I shoot both guns regularly out to 500 yards and sometimes, even farther. I also shoot in benchrest competition once a month at 100 yards. So I guess my answer is, I shoot quite a bit with scoped long guns. This gun seems to have an issue and I'm trying to figure out what it is. It's going to a local gunsmith later this week to have the crown checked. Beyond that.....who knows?

[Maztech89]

Oh in my world 1 ragged hole means 1 hole that's just bigger than the diameter of the bullet. 5 touching is different than "1 ragged hole." 5 touching like shown in photo above is something that should be expected from a stock savage. That's a **** nice group for 100 yards and any rimfire. I guess around here with the BR shooters I shoot with we have a different use of the term. It's all good just my misunderstanding. I just hate thinking that a new shooter can come on here and expect that their new rig should shoot 5 shots measuring say .185" outside to outside regardless of their optics or ability.

Anyways I feel I'm getting off topic, back at it.

[KRP]

My group sizes shrunk considerably when I started sorting my ammo by weight.

It definitely makes a difference. With all the "one hole" and "<MOA" HMR rifles around I wonder how much better things could be if match grade ammo was available?

[KRP]

...

[bflee]

Sorry for the 100 yard target post. I dont consider it a "ragged hole" target either. I have only shot the target at fifty yards once and it was a "ragged hole" target. I will try And dig it up in my photos. Its in a piece of plywood i shot when I first got the rifle. I just posted the 100 yard target because if they are that close at 100 you will have a ragged hole at 50 I guarantee. Alot of people also dont believe the 22WMR will shoot that tight. One of the best features is that it is on at 50 and on at 100. I love this gun, but the crows hate it.

[bflee]

Here is the first time I ever shot my Savage 93 22WMR when I got it home. If this was on paper it would be one ragged hole. Its five shots in alot less than a half inch. I knew I had a good one then!http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a617/bflee1/2013-04-29185030_zps93b74e93.jpg (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/bflee1/media/2013-04-29185030_zps93b74e93.jpg.html)

[Maztech89]

Bflee, that's a stellar 22mag and one I'd love to own shooting like that. That's awesome! Grandpas old Marlin 782 22mag I inherited is barely minute of cat at 100, and hideous to boot but very dear to my heart. Wouldn't take a grand for it and it's about a $40 gun haha.

Surfcitydude if you compete in the benchrest game you clearly aren't the problem with the group size. Let us know what your gunsmith finds to be a cause. A bad crown wouldn't surprise me or maybe the bore scope will reveal an issue. Please let us know what you find out.

[bflee]

Bad news is it only shoots the Hornady like that and I cant get any now. I still have a small stash though!

[JG26_Irish]

Yup, one ragged hole looks more like this group of five shots fired at 50yds (not with Savage.. sry). My 93R in 17hmr is usually able to group 3/4" to 1" at 100yds from a bench and in the 1.6" range at 200yds when winds are calm. I am using a cheap (BSA) 3-12x scope with mine. CCI & Hornady ammo shoots better than the Winchester and the hollow points seem to group a little better than the ballistic tips. At 50yds, my 17hmr is not able to shoot groups like the pic but it will often shoot groups where all or most of the holes touch in the 0.5-0.3" range. I shot it in a on line challenge one day at 100yds. The game was to shoot six 5-shot groups all in a row at 100yds. It averaged 0.953"/0.910 MOA for all five and a best of 0.653"/0.624 MOA. I posted that pic. And as you can see from the pic of the rifle the conditions were not exactly ideal for rimfire shooting (temps in the 20's, snow).

If the OP is a BR and prairie dog shooter, then he clearly knows something about rifle set up and scope mounts. I do both and have often shot my center fire varmint rifles out past 500yds and the rimfires out to 200yds or so. His rifle has a problem. I have heard some speak of checking the torque of the two action screws. Setting them to about 20 inch-lbs. Vortex is a good optic. If the scope has been checked, then I would back up and think about, what is the most simple possible cause for this?

My suggestion:

The sighting system is the most likely culprit. Remove the scope and rings and replace both with a scope and rings from one of your varmint rifles that you know are shooting well and re-test. Inspect the bases where the rings mount on the rifle and confirm that the rings are secure. Unless the crown shows visible damage, it is not a likely cause, but if all else fails, it is worth checking. Since you implied that this rifle has never shot well, it is possible that it had a tight spot some distance in the rear of the muzzle and is causing the bullets to rattle loose on down the bbl from there to the muzzle which is known to cause 22lr's to shoot poorly. I guess the same could happen in a 17? If so, there is nothing to do to fix it except replace the bbl/rifle. Slugging the bbl would confirm such. I am not up to speed on Savage's QC with regards to bbl manufacture.

One thing I can confirm is that the 93R should shoot better than the OP's stated example.

Irish


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/JG26_Irish/Rem540XR50yds5shc.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JG26_Irish/media/Rem540XR50yds5shc.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/JG26_Irish/17HMR100ydgrpsc.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JG26_Irish/media/17HMR100ydgrpsc.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v303/JG26_Irish/Sav17HMRc.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/JG26_Irish/media/Sav17HMRc.jpg.html)