Expected accuracy from a Savage 93-17

[oldguy]

What should I expect in accuracy from my Savage 93-17hmr its a BTV model, I've owned this gun 6 months fired about 300 rounds of various brands, tried two different scopes,now using a Mueller 8-32x44, groups at 100 yards vary between 1.25-2.25 inches, other shooters have tried with same results, stable bench setup. Groups sometimes in a triangle pattern and a semi-circle, something I've never seen in years of shooting.

Personally I was expecting less then 1 inch with this rifle are my expectations too high.?

[hotbrass]

Any wind?

Try a better scope?

Clean the barrel?

Check the crown?

You should be getting sub 1" at 100 right out of the box.

[oldguy]

Wind variable over the period of time shooting, checked all issues you suggested, I'm in agreement that it should be less then 1 inch.

[Josh Smith]

Groups sometimes in a triangle pattern and a semi-circle,

THIS.

Check to be certain your barrel is indeed free-floated. My Mk II was NOT - the stock was cut wrong.

As a barrel with pressure points heats up, it will begin to move against those pressure points, usually in a circular pattern, but often in other patterns as well.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b191/WabashShootist/Guns/M44/Shootinupammo.jpg

These were shot from a Mosin-Nagant M44 carbine at either 50 or 100 yards (forget which; probably says on the target and will be visible when I post). You can see the distinct semi-circle made by the ammo as the barrel heated.

The .17 is going to be less pronounced as it's not a .30 caliber round running at 2500fps, but the principle is the same.

If it's a skinny (sporter) barrel, bed the barrel.

If it's a heavy bull barrel, make sure it's floating.

Should cure your problem.

Josh

[tenwalker]

I have the BTVLSS and it does sub 2" 10 shot groups at 200yds. With a Nikon Buckmaster 4.5-14x40 and Hornady ammo.

[oldguy]

Barrel Is free floated all seems good, Think I will ship it off to Savage see what they say can't enjoy shooting
it as is.

[joemax72]

I have the same model. Out of the box the gun shot about like yours. On calm days I routinely shot groups of a little over an inch at 100 with the rifles prefered ammo, not counting those inexplicable flyers that seem to be inevitable w/ rimfires. Counting flyers in 5 shot groups would have likely raised the average group size to at least 2" at 100 yards if not a little more. However, I monkeyed around w/ the trigger to give it a lighter lower limit in its range of adjustment, removed the round recoil lug and made the rear bottom portion of the action a recoil lug, installed short little pillars for the magazine plate to tighten against, and fully floated the barrel along with a little action bedding. After all those changes the gun now shoots right around 5/8" with far fewer unexplained flyers. If I count the flyers in 5 shot groups it would probably increase group size to around 1.25" That is good enough accuracy for 200 yard sage rat shooting.

[benzy2]

I have found most budget to mid priced rimfires to be greatly improved by pillars and bedding and floating of the barrel, both when cold and hot. The only 17hmr I have is a Marlin, but I found groups became much smaller and much more consistent when the rifle was given pillars and an epoxy bed as well as the barrel channel opened up to really be free floated when the barrel heated up. I found the same with the CZs I have as well as the Savage MkII. Lets be honest, these rifles are built fairly inexpensively and a great stock to action fit isn't always, or even often, the case. The more expensive rifles have more attention spent in this area but for these less expensive rifles it is often overlooked.

Also a point to realize is the wind. I know a lot of guys who can shoot centerfire rifles at 100 yards sub-MOA without hesitation. More than a few can push 1/2MOA as well. These guys have good form but also use bullets that have a fraction of the wind drift at 100 yards that even the .17hmr has. Put them behind a rimfire at 100 yards and things look a lot uglier. Even a 1mph wind change results in groups opening up over 1/4 of an inch. Wind changes of a couple mph can quickly turn a rifle that is capable of 1/2MOA over 1 or 2 MOA, even with the best form and follow through on the trigger. I personally don't use flags and don't know how much their changes tell me to adjust. As such I need a PERFECTLY consistent condition to have any real chance of the groups coming out MOA or less at longer ranges. The rifle has shown at closer ranges to be quite capable of holding MOA but 100 yards really takes a bit of skill, assuming conditions aren't 100% perfect. Guys who get better results at these or further ranges have a great ability to read wind, shoot in great conditions, get lucky, or are lying.

I wouldn't doubt that bedding is a bit of the issue, but I also wouldn't be surprised if part of the problem is that your range isn't giving you amazing conditions to shoot in as well. I would first try to bed the stock. Like I said earlier that turned my 17hmr from a 1.5-3MOA rifle to a .75-1MOA rifle, again though at either close ranges or under perfect conditions.

[oldguy]

Ok, wanted to update this thread, received rifle back from Savage after 18days, came back with target/papers stating repaired and tested with a group of .950(one flyer without flyer 4 were .350)using Hornady 20 gr HP.

I installed scope shot a 5 shot group same ammo they used it gave me .550 at 100 yards. Started to rain so I did not continue however I have never fired a group like that with this rifle.

Now the strange part, called Savage to compliment and ask to speak with tech. to find out exactly what had been done as I could not detect any work, the lady I spoke with put me on hold came back after several minutes and said tech not available but he had simply disassembled, cleaned and bolted on scope and fired the one group they sent.

Only two thoughts here I had not cleaned rifle throughly or I had not tighten receivers bolts to proper torque.

In any event instead of wasting ammo I should have returned after 100 rounds in my opinion. I do wish Savage would have the Tech include a more detailed report could prevent returns.

[joemax72]

That's very interesting. I wonder what the torque specs are? I may have been able to save myself a lot of work if proper torque can make that much difference to accuracy. Thanks for the update.

[oldguy]

After more testing I find most groups under 1.00 with Hornady 20gr which is what Savage used for testing, consistently I have one flier in 5 rounds without that flier groups would be @.500-.650., perhaps glass bedding would take out that one flier. Anyone have a good website, video or instructions for glass bedding this stock.

I understand rim fire ammo is inconsistent however I do find it odd usually get one flier, of course operator error has to be taken in to consideration however I'm using steel adjustable rest on front and bags in back.