My New 50 Cal Wildcat

[Blitzfike]

sixonetonoffun, if you get a chance, would you try some primers other than the Fed 215's with the same load and see what difference the 215's make? My experience with the Federal 215's is that they work much better at igniting large charges or ball powders. Just curious what difference you would see in velocity with a different primer. Really some good info here, you saved me quite a workup with the 4198, that was my next move with this beast. I let myself get side tracked building a 6BR plinker, I need to get back on this for sure. Thanks.. Jim

[scope eye]

I always use CCI #200's and they work great.

Dean

[Blitzfike]

I always use CCI #200's and they work great.

Dean

I use the CCI's or even the Wolf or other Russian primers if that's what I have, I'm mainly interested in the difference in velocity using the same load but with a different primer than the Federal 215. The Federal primers are generally hotter in my experience and in some cases really raise pressure/velocity if used in max loads. What I'm after here is how much difference the 215 makes in velocity comapared to a CCI or other non Federal primer. Jim

[sixonetonoffun]

Shucks there! I used cci 250's on these. I was down to my last box of 215's hoarding them for the 7rm. I can go to 215's for the comparison. Right now am out of non mag primers. Have 215's, 250's, 9 1/2's and 34's.

[Blitzfike]

Thanks, I'll keep watching the data. I don't have any 215's or Id chrono it myself.. Very good info, thanks again, Jim

[sixonetonoffun]

Raining and no memorial day picnics here. Leaves me with way too much free time!
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii554/sixonetonoffun/Mobile%20Uploads/20150525_114234_zpstnrcvnjm.jpg (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/sixonetonoffun/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150525_114234_zpstnrcvnjm.jpg.html)

[sixonetonoffun]

I think my primer piercing was/is from new brass introduced. Brass the pockets haven't loosened up on yet. I don't have a good tool to uniform them yet other the a lyman and rcbs swagger. That doesn't do anything for depth. Imagine they will be fine after a few firings... May have to look at some other primers.

[Blitzfike]

One thing to be careful of with this beast is setting headspace with over-crimped brass. I found early on that if I used much crimp on the brass used to set headspace, after a couple of firings the cases have grown enough to cause drastic pressure increases when the neck is caught in the rifling. I had to go back to virtually no crimp and using the 50 beowolf die to set neck tension and then bullets swaged to .5015 for proper retention. I was getting very erratic velocities with the previous situation and had some blown primers as well. All this with IMR-4895 which should be fairly forgiving in this thing. As soon as I set headspace with an empty brass trimmed to the length I decided on, my problems with pressure spikes went away. You probably aren't seeing that particular issue, but just in case, I thought I'd share my experiences. Jim

[sixonetonoffun]

I agree headspace was my biggest issue the first season playing with this. I am still using the opened 500 s&w die to size between each reload. Currently here is my setup.
Cheap RCBS 3-DIE CARB ROLL/CRIMP 500 S&W/SPL PN/23812
Hornady 500 S&W taper crimp

Headspaced 2.65
Trim length 2.618-2.62
Process:
Tumble wet with SS pins.
F/L size yes some stretch
Trim to 2.62 or just under.
Chamfer/deburr withh rcbs tool then lyman vld on inside. Check length adjust if needed.
Dry tumble to remove any lube ect..
Prime with RCBS hand tool. (Might try a bench mounted one see if added leverage helps with seating new cases.)
Weigh charges fill cases.
Add filler as needed to achieve desired compression. Usually just about equal to the width of the canelure or slightly less if over 100% powder.
Push start bullets in by hand.
Use the rcbs r/c die to compress load but not crimp.
Use Hornady taper crimp die for final crimp. I have been aggressively crimping.

Early on I tried to let the brass grow to chamber size and length. But ran into the issue you raised with the brass latching on to the rifling and creating all sorts of problems. Most noted extraction.

Due to lack of experience mainly it took me longer then you to figure out wtf was happening. I gladly admit my folly if it prevents someone else from repeating it.

I find it interesting your knurling to fit. This is something I've been researching lately. Looking at the possibility of using .505 jacketed bullets for the higher bc. But it doesn't look very doable. Maybe when the bore is shot out!

Still want to pickup a beowulf die set, but feeding this monster is about all I can do this year.

[Blitzfike]

Sent you a PM

[sixonetonoffun]

Here is the Q/L BTSniper ran for me last year.http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii554/sixonetonoffun/Mobile%20Uploads/50thumperTAC_zps9k5wfrxk.png (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/sixonetonoffun/media/Mobile%20Uploads/50thumperTAC_zps9k5wfrxk.png.html)

I can only fit 90grs in with this bullet which is what Q/L came up with as the max pressure load. I'm going to give one a try next time the chrono is set up to see if the velocity matches closely.

I think that a good estimate of max pressure at a specific velocity for this bullet can be extrapolated there. Probably a grain or 2 under just to error on the side of caution.

[Blitzfike]

I found some pretty close relations using quickload. I was impressed with the results. I've only been using it for the past month and have a lot to learn about it yet.

[sixonetonoffun]

I would like to have had QL to play with for this. But normally everything I have had... someone else has been there done that. This has really been a lot of firsts for me. First wildcat, straight walled cartridge, 50 cal, so on ect...

Has gotten me interested in aspects I'd not otherwise been inclined to consider. As well as look at other large caliber guns and cost vs practical use and more. This really is basically a modern 50-90 :-)

On the personal side this recoil wise is about as far as I want to go. (Shoulders aint what they used to be.)

Practical side is @100 yards reduced loads are a blast and many bullets from the .500 family are built with that range and lower velocity in mind.

[sixonetonoffun]

CCI 250 500gr FP/XTP over 80gr RL7
2215 High
2171 Low
2190 Avg.
ES 44
SD 14

Federal 215 500gr. FP/XTP over 80gr RL7
2209
2204
2202
avg. 2205 es 7 sd 3
This was the same brass used before 215 primers were just hot enough to push me off the bleeding edge. Test was a failure stopped after 3 rounds all 3 primers popped. Leaving me with 6 to pull apart. ES was very promising with the 215's but there are too many uncontrolled variables to draw any conclusions at all. Will continue to play with these 500's till they are gone but will not get any more. They seem to turn nearly to dust on impact and are not the bullet for any hunting.

Also shot the 90gr Ramshot TAC load it came in at the peak of the bleeding edge @2182 a little under the 2300 projected by Q/L but my load varies slightly from the input data.

Side note.
Lead Sled claimed the life of my Weaver Classic 400 circa 1970 model. May it RIP!

[Blitzfike]

Lead sled claimed a brand new Gameseeker Pro on my 375 H&H single shot. tough on shoulder or tough on scopes.. I still sue the lead sled for most of my workups. Jim

[sixonetonoffun]

So with the 500gr xtp 80gr rl7/215 load
Case head expansion was insane. From a new once fired case sized .528+ it grew to .532 for a .004 +- strain. Velocity avg. 2205 fps.

The 90gr tac load gave up a little velocity @2180-ish but case head measured .529 for a stretch of only .001 not scientific exactly but clearly worthy of further testing.

Measurements were done by caliper not mic. So there is some margin of error but... I'll take 2180 fps from a 500gr bullet happily.

[Blitzfike]

I'm going to be trying some WC-844 and WC-842 loads over the next couple of months, I'll have to do some serious development work with them in slow steps. The 844 is my go to powder for the 223 and the 842 works well in everything from the 223 to the 308. I have worked up loads with it for 223, 243, 22-250, 308, 30-30 win and 458 win mag. That gives me lots of examples to extrapolate from with it. As long as the chronograph works, I can get there. Anytime you have that much expansion of the case head, you are treading in dangerous waters. It takes lots of pressure to make the brass flow like that.

[sixonetonoffun]

Anytime you have that much expansion of the case head, you are treading in dangerous waters. It takes lots of pressure to make the brass flow like that.

I won't be ruining anymore brass like that. The signs were there. I just chose to ignore them.

On a happier note I may be able to salvage the old Weaver after all.

Look forward to seeing how your workup goes. Think pats had some wc844 would be great to see what works well with it.

[sixonetonoffun]

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii554/sixonetonoffun/Mobile%20Uploads/20150602_193449_zpssokrig77.jpg (http://s1259.photobucket.com/user/sixonetonoffun/media/Mobile%20Uploads/20150602_193449_zpssokrig77.jpg.html)

[scope eye]

So a 500 grainer at 2200 plus you got yourself a mini Howitzer.LOL

Dean