Savage hog hunter question

[aquaticsanonymous]

Hello, new to the forums, long time savage owner of a few different models. Great group here it seems with lots of info!

Anyway, I have a question. I bought a new Hog hunter model 11 in .223 and have got some MOA groups using 50 and 55 grain vmax with varget, h4895, and cfe 223. This rifles stock is to me, terrible, and will need replacing. I plan on replacing it with a Bell and Carlson tactical medalist. While trying these 50 and 55 grain bullets, I noticed that this rifle has a super long throat. My other Savage rifles do not have this "long throat", and I wonder what the theory is here? Anyway, it makes for loading "just off the lands kinda tough with those bullet weights. Anyone else have this experience?

Anyone care to share any successful loads for this rifle?

Thanks in advance for any help,

Don

[dirtdigger]

The theory here may be since it is a Hog hunter model for crying out loud the end users may want to resort to some heavier for the caliber projectiles to nail 'em Hogs more successfully:p

In reality quite a lot of production guns nowadays have longer throats from what I 've seen and heard, not sure about the reasoning behind it. May be they are thinking that some hotter loads out there are going to have less max pressure that way as opposed to being jammed into the lands:noidea: I got a Hog Hunter in .223 as well late last year but haven't played with it yet.. How far from the lands can you sit the 55 v-maxes? Being flat base they should allow you to sit them out a little further.

[CharlieNC]

Mine loves 69 SMK and 75 Horn Match run pretty good too. Its a fine barrel and chamber.

[SK13R]

Obviously you want to work up your own loads in your own gun carefully. But here is what I have found so far with my HH .223. I tested both the VLDs and the SMKs on paper at 300 yards and the VLDs actually showed a better grouping than the SMKs. 2.5" instead of the SMKs at 2.8". One variable was that I used a new batch of VLDs that had a much more uniform meplat than the batch I tested at 100yards that gave me a .8" group. I have a feeling that the new batch of VLDs will be comparable at the .4" range at 100. I also believe that my 300 yard groups can be better there is just some "me" in there spreading them out. I will be testing the 75 grain AMAX with varget as soon as I get ahold of them... The COAL w/ C is just my comparator length so you can ignore that. Hope this helps!



Gun
Bullet
Case
Primer
Powder
Charge
COAL
COAL w/ C.
Velocity
Group
Notes


Savage .223
Sierra MK 69 Grain
Remington
CCI #450
Varget
25.00
2.285
2.397
2850
.4" @ 100 yds
Tested at 33F Slight Drizzle


Savage .223
Berger VLD 70 Grain
Remington
CCI #450
Varget
26.00
2.410

2950
.8" @ 100 yds
Tested at 33F Slight Drizzle


Savage .223
Hornady Vmax 40 Grain
Aguila
CCI #450
CFE223
29.00
2.280

3400
.4" @ 100 yds
3 round group.

[aquaticsanonymous]

The theory here may be since it is a Hog hunter model for crying out loud the end users may want to resort to some heavier for the caliber projectiles to nail 'em Hogs more successfully:p

In reality quite a lot of production guns nowadays have longer throats from what I 've seen and heard, not sure about the reasoning behind it. May be they are thinking that some hotter loads out there are going to have less max pressure that way as opposed to being jammed into the lands:noidea: I got a Hog Hunter in .223 as well late last year but haven't played with it yet.. How far from the lands can you sit the 55 v-maxes? Being flat base they should allow you to sit them out a little further.

i was able to load both 55's and 50's 20 thousands off the lands, but couldnt load 40's off the lands. After going to the range a couple days ago, I found it shot better further back........go figure. Got some pretty darn good groups with 55 vmax and varget loaded at 1.868 by hornady comparator 2-22.

[aquaticsanonymous]

Obviously you want to work up your own loads in your own gun carefully. But here is what I have found so far with my HH .223. I tested both the VLDs and the SMKs on paper at 300 yards and the VLDs actually showed a better grouping than the SMKs. 2.5" instead of the SMKs at 2.8". One variable was that I used a new batch of VLDs that had a much more uniform meplat than the batch I tested at 100yards that gave me a .8" group. I have a feeling that the new batch of VLDs will be comparable at the .4" range at 100. I also believe that my 300 yard groups can be better there is just some "me" in there spreading them out. I will be testing the 75 grain AMAX with varget as soon as I get ahold of them... The COAL w/ C is just my comparator length so you can ignore that. Hope this helps!



Gun

Bullet

Case

Primer

Powder

Charge

COAL

COAL w/ C.

Velocity

Group

Notes



Savage .223

Sierra MK 69 Grain

Remington

CCI #450

Varget

25.00

2.285

2.397

2850

.4" @ 100 yds

Tested at 33F Slight Drizzle



Savage .223

Berger VLD 70 Grain

Remington

CCI #450

Varget

26.00

2.410


2950

.8" @ 100 yds

Tested at 33F Slight Drizzle



Savage .223

Hornady Vmax 40 Grain

Aguila

CCI #450

CFE223

29.00

2.280


3400

.4" @ 100 yds

3 round group.





Wow, great information, exactly what I was looking for. I did find a box of 69 grain match kings, and next trip to the range i will update this post with my results. What kind of comparator are you measuring with? Or is that a typo that your comparator length is longer than your COAL? I run a hornady 2-22 comparator, and was able to duplicate your COAL, and then take a comparator length for a baseline. I also loaded some .20 thousand off the lands of my rifle. I am going to work up in increments of .3 from 24 grains of varget to 25.5

[aquaticsanonymous]

Thanks guys for the information, and I will post up something for the group when I get a chance to get to the range. Michigan is supposed to be in the teens this week, but if I get a day that it gets into the 20's I will post the results.

[SK13R]

I use the 2-22 comparator insert only with my dial calipers. Basically set the insert on the bullet them measure from the base of the cartridge to the top of the comparator insert. So that number is including the comparator insert. If that makes sense. I look forward to seeing your results! Good luck, be safe and have fun!

[Hobbez]

Not related to loads, but seeing as how lots of you guys have the 11 HH in 223, has anyone else had issues with ejection and feeding? Mine fails to eject 2 out of 3 rounds that I put through (I have to remove by hand) and has recently begun a bit of an annoying trend with failing to feed... combine this with the open sights shooting 6" high at the lowest setting with every brand I've tried and I'm starting to wonder if I made the wrong choice here...

[SK13R]

Hobbez, I have had zero FTE or FTF out of the mag or at all out of my HH223. The FTE, are they staying in the chamber or just not ejecting out of the bolt face when pulled back? And the feeding issues, the bolt not picking them up or they nose jamming or something? That sucks you are having problems. As far as the sights go... never used the irons. I think they might even be coming off soon.

[masterblaster]

Hobbez, order the enchanced extractor ejector kit from sharp shooter supply, this should cure your problem, I change out every rifle I buy with this kit.

[Digduggy]

Masterblaster, i thought those were only for older rifles?

Mine is doing the same... 111 30-06, only a year old

[masterblaster]

I have used them on 5 savages I bought between 2004 or 5 and two months ago. stagger feed and center feed. one recent rifle was a 30-06 111.

[aquaticsanonymous]

Obviously you want to work up your own loads in your own gun carefully. But here is what I have found so far with my HH .223. I tested both the VLDs and the SMKs on paper at 300 yards and the VLDs actually showed a better grouping than the SMKs. 2.5" instead of the SMKs at 2.8". One variable was that I used a new batch of VLDs that had a much more uniform meplat than the batch I tested at 100yards that gave me a .8" group. I have a feeling that the new batch of VLDs will be comparable at the .4" range at 100. I also believe that my 300 yard groups can be better there is just some "me" in there spreading them out. I will be testing the 75 grain AMAX with varget as soon as I get ahold of them... The COAL w/ C is just my comparator length so you can ignore that. Hope this helps!



Gun

Bullet

Case

Primer

Powder

Charge

COAL

COAL w/ C.

Velocity

Group

Notes



Savage .223

Sierra MK 69 Grain

Remington

CCI #450

Varget

25.00

2.285

2.397

2850

.4" @ 100 yds

Tested at 33F Slight Drizzle



Savage .223

Berger VLD 70 Grain

Remington

CCI #450

Varget

26.00

2.410


2950

.8" @ 100 yds

Tested at 33F Slight Drizzle



Savage .223

Hornady Vmax 40 Grain

Aguila

CCI #450

CFE223

29.00

2.280


3400

.4" @ 100 yds

3 round group.




http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss199/aquaticsanonymous/hoghuntergroup_zpsaa1058ca.jpg (http://s575.photobucket.com/user/aquaticsanonymous/media/hoghuntergroup_zpsaa1058ca.jpg.html)

[aquaticsanonymous]

I had to thank you for the Varget and SMK 69 grain suggestion! Worked like a charm. Best group to date! Finally got a nice warm Michigan march day...............22 degrees! Here's my hog hunter .223 as she sits in a new Bell and Carlson Tactical Medalist.

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss199/aquaticsanonymous/hoghunterbellstock_zpsf8453e51.jpg (http://s575.photobucket.com/user/aquaticsanonymous/media/hoghunterbellstock_zpsf8453e51.jpg.html)

[SK13R]

http://i575.photobucket.com/albums/ss199/aquaticsanonymous/hoghuntergroup_zpsaa1058ca.jpg (http://s575.photobucket.com/user/aquaticsanonymous/media/hoghuntergroup_zpsaa1058ca.jpg.html)

Nice!!! I'm glad it worked out for you!! That stock looks good to. I'm debating on what to put mine in. I just have it in the factory stock that I bedded right now.

[badmutha6]

I have a 308 HH in that same stock (but in the OD green) and it sure shoots. .3" groups at 100 with Federal Gold Medal Match 168gr Sierra BTHP Match. I absolutely love the stock combo but the green tupperware is the worst stock I've ever seen on a production rifle. I have about 300 rounds through mine and havent had any FTE FTF problems.