AR or AK?

[emtrescue6]

LOL....Alaska should be on everyones bucket list...I have a place up there and love is...Arkansas on the other hand...I've worked there often, never left anything there worth going back for...hahaha!

[mazda3gun]

LMAO! @ thomae! LOVE IT MAN!

[mazda3gun]

So, did some more searching, and a kit isn't very financially practical:apologetic:.

I can buy a Saiga for in the $400-500 range, which can easily be modified/upgraded as long as I get a stamped and not milled receiver. That figure leaves room for ammo too. Compared to the AR which would run $750 built for a very nice rig, with no ammo. It would be chrome lined and only gas, not piston driven.

Starting to look like an AK-47 style is winning.

[tammons]

Build an AR. They are basically kit guns and easy to assemble. There is really not much building to one.
Just buy the parts and put them together. I never had anyone show me anything and just downloaded instructions and a kit and bingo - rifle. FYI the firs ttime just buy a matched bolt and barrel.

Lots of small parts so if you order them separately keep a close track else you will be missing a spring or pin that will stall your effort.

Another plus is there are god knows how many Alternate calibers and it takes about 1 minute to swap an upper.

That said I dont know anything about AKS, except supposedly you can dunk them into the mud, take it out and they will fire.
That and they shoot side of barn accuracy supposedly.

I am building or should I say waiting on a 358 gremlin barrel from McGowen for my AR for more Whack.

[buxman66]

A chinese mak90 or polish pmkms (the underfolding designation) is what your looking for. Armslist.com is a good way to find one. Made in military quality, state run factories in both countries no less. Extremely durable. AK lovers have an expression, "minute of man" to describe their accuracy.they were literally designed that way intentionally.

[mazda3gun]

A Chinese mak90 or Polish pmkms? What's wrong with the Russian Saiga's? Other than they only take Surefire high cap mags, I've read nothing but good reviews so far.

The "minute of man" expression is pretty close to truth from my understanding of an AK. In my neck of the woods though, and where I live in KY, if I can group a grapefruit @ 100-200yds, I'm good enough to kill a deer. You would have to deliberately hunt a farm or powerline to find a shot further than 200yds, too many trees and mountains. Which is why I appreciate you folks that spend money on new barrels and high-dollar glass to shoot 1000yds competitions, kudos to you. :focus:...

So is the Saiga a decent avenue to take or should I reroute?

[mazda3gun]

I feel my comparison has become similar to that of a '89 Toyota truck(AK) and 2014 GMC Sierra(AR)... The 'Yotas still going strong and doesn't look pretty, but gets the job done every time. The GMC is shiny and new and runs great, has all kinds of bells and whistles for it from the factory too, but it'll wear out faster than its 25yr old counterpart.

I'm actually a Ford/Honda guy myself.

[buxman66]

Saiga is a perfectly fine weapon. More expensive though, and for the money the chinese and polish were just some of many that can be had for less money and equal if not better than the saiga.saiga is certainly a fine weapon much to the same standards as the German/Austrian Sig.

Also I wouldn't pigeonhole myself to the notion that I only can use surefire mags. I'd want the flexibility of being able to run steel factory mags as well as tapco and the new magpuls. versatility.

[tk421991]

Saiga is a perfectly fine weapon. More expensive though, and for the money the chinese and polish were just some of many that can be had for less money and equal if not better than the saiga.saiga is certainly a fine weapon much to the same standards as the German/Austrian Sig.

I just bought a Saiga in .223 for coyote hunting. This one has a wooden, removable stock. I would buy another or a Vepr in a heatbeat if I had the money.

http://legionusainc.com/izsl-m-saiga-wood-.223-rem.html

AKs, generally speaking and especially Saigas, are cheaper and are definitely more right hand friendly than AR. I won't say that AKs are more reliable than ARs, but I will say that I've never seen an AK have an issue, and I nearly had a heart attack when I saw someone "mortar" (whack the rifle against a table) an AR to un-jam it. The AR was brand new too.

Since I'm right handed and cheap, I prefer AKs. Also, the noise from a short barreled AR (16", 20") is annoyingly loud to me. A lot of noise, not a lot of recoil. A 7.62x39 AK doesn't seem loud to me and neither does my M91/30 or my .30-06 110, and my .223 Saiga has a 22" barrel, so it's probably quieter (haven't shot it yet).

[buxman66]

.223 ak mags aren't exactly cheap nor are they readily available as the 7.62x39

[Stockrex]

go for saigas,
u can run ANY mag in them with a little bit of mod, depends on the caliber,
if you need to read more and convince yourself, here are some links:
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-567005.html

http://www.firearmstalk.com/forums/f19/saiga-308-accuracy-not-bad-ak-18599/index2.html

On page 1, the 308 shows a 1/2 moa group, with factory ammo, and .415 moa with hand loads,

This, like any other "question" on which platform should I get, turns into an epic AK vs AR, well just your cousins from AR move to AK and let there be peace in the family ;-)


Why I like Saigas?
chrome lined barrel, made in the fatherland in the same factory where designer worked till he passed.

[AZ_GUN_NUT]

Saiga is a perfectly fine weapon. More expensive though, and for the money the chinese and polish were just some of many that can be had for less money and equal if not better than the saiga.saiga is certainly a fine weapon much to the same standards as the German/Austrian Sig.

Also I wouldn't pigeonhole myself to the notion that I only can use surefire mags. I'd want the flexibility of being able to run steel factory mags as well as tapco and the new magpuls. versatility.

Here's a halfway decent video on how to mag it use regular AK mags.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ohTKhFC6zlw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27zB5W9pXKk

[buxman66]

Everyone is pointing out how to modify and while that is great to know, the point I was TRYING to make is that w/hardly any effort at all, you can buy a mak90, pmkms, sar-1, sa-95, Egyptian Maadi or a number of other well made AK's out there for LESS MONEY than a arsenal or saiga are running for. You wanna blow money on glossy magazine centerfold AK.....knock yourself out. The facts are out there if you wanna ffind them. Your opening statement said you was looking for a good quality, bang around rifle. The Saiga is a good quality rifle, but personally I don't think I'd be banging around w/it. I would be looking for a quality rifle, in a penetrable caliber,that will accept all mags, made in a military factory.

[buxman66]

I dont know your opinion on it, but I like the fact that big brother doesnt need to know anything you have stashed in your safe other than what you buy from your lgs. Armslist (and other forums) is a classified ad forum that you do face to face. No paperwork, no hassle. .gov wants to know what you have, I think they know W A Y too much as it is.

[wbm]

Ever consider an AK-74?

[wbm]

I dont know your opinion on it, but I like the fact that big brother doesn't need to know anything you have stashed in your safe

Or any place else. With new "executive orders" relating to firearms coming with increased frequency and a Congress that has no intention of being a real Congress things are going to get very interesting in the near future.

[broncbob]

I own both AK's and AR rifles, and I say go AR. They are far tougher and run far better than people think. There are many videos on youtube with AR torture tests. Yeah you can't huck a Twinkies in a AR action and expect it to run like a AK will, but why on earth are you putting Twinkies in your rifle?

The ergos on a AR kill the AK any day. I tend to look right over the sights on my would stocked AK. (this makes a micro red dot on a scout mount a perfect choice) I like the AK for what it is, but it's not a modern battle rifle. It's a dirt simple rifle that you can hand to any goat herder and he can make it go boom.

The balistics on the 7.2x69 aren't that great either. The .223 can be trusted up to med. game size, and with the 7 twist on most AR barrels you can run a bullet weight that I would trust on deer size game inside 200 yards.

[buxman66]

Ballistics on the 7.62x39 match those almost exactly to a .30-30 which for many years has been the standard for deer and other mid sized game.

[buxman66]

Or any place else. With new "executive orders" relating to firearms coming with increased frequency and a Congress that has no intention of being a real Congress things are going to get very interesting in the near future.

I agree wholeheartedly.

[broncbob]

Ballistics on the 7.62x39 match those almost exactly to a .30-30 which for many years has been the standard for deer and other mid sized game.


It was the standard for a long time, not so much these days with modern bullet construction and cartridge design. I would say you would be hard pressed to pick a new standard for medium size game, there is so much available these days. I would put fast twist 22-250 with one of the modern bullet designs over the 30-30. The main limiting factor being that most ammo is loaded to chamber and fire in rifles from a long time ago for the 30-30. The new fast twist 22-250 being able to take advantage of more modern power levels and bullet design. YMMV