Occasional misfires

[scpaul]

I bought a used Savage 116,it has an F 24xxxx s/n, so it could have been made as early as '89(doubt it's that old) Are Savages prone to firing pin springs getting weak,especially when stored cocked like most people do? I've already disassembled the bolt and cleaned it,saw some wear nothing too bad.Lightely lubed it and reassembled it. Still had 4 misfires,some light firingpin strikes. Bedded stock since then, found some high pressure spots,possible problem? Anyway has anyone heard of f-pin springs getting weak ? Paul

[BillPa]

Springs lose tension from use, not being compressed. I have had yet to replace a firing pin springs in any of my Savages in the 20+ years I been shooting them.

Light strikes can be caused by a number of things outside the bolt. The sear may be be binding on action, making contact with the stock, the trigger over travel set too tight, and etc. All or any one of those things can pad the pin fall.

Bill

[scpaul]

I have checked the sear/trigger clearance after release ,I can see light.As for binding on the stock,it did it w/orig.sav.synthec(plastic)and now w/a Boyd's stock. Now the Boyd's is bedded, haven't shot since bedding job. I'm using handloads, they work fine in another 7 mag,new Win.brass-FL sized. Checked fired brass vs. misfired ctgs. best I could w/a dial caliper.Minor differance-as you would expect fired vs.new/FL.sized.

[Mr. Bruce]

I've seen instances where too much head-space will cause this. You should set your F/L sizing die so that it only bumps the shoulder back 2 thousandths. Your brass will last longer too.

[scpaul]

I normally try not to mess w/the shoulder on rifle dedicated brass.I try to neck size only.I compared fired brass w/misfired brass using a dial caliper and found almost no differance in dimensions ,like if you had a out/spec. chamber,headspace prob,etc. Thanks,Paul

[BillPa]

As for binding on the stock,it did it w/orig.sav.synthec(plastic)and now w/a Boyd's stock.

The sear could have been contacting is both stocks. Since you reload pull it out of the stock, prime a few cases( obviously no powder - bullets!!!) then try it. If it goes bang then you'll know its a stock issue.

[Mr. Bruce]

Maybe the firing pin protrusion is set a little shallow? The correct protrusion is between .05 and .062 inch.

[scpaul]

BillPa ,I had tried that,since the misfires were so sporatic not sure it was a fair test. I have bedded the Boyd's since then,1st time it wasn't exactly right,did some light grinding/roughing for good adhesion,another thin coat and it came out better than I expected. During the 1st bedding I did find the bbl. nut binding against the stock.It is now floated from the front, bottom,and sides(+3-4 layers of electrical tape)of the recoil lug to the rear action screw. When I get the piece I broke I'll try it again in the stock,torqued down. Thanks Paul

[thomae]

http://www.savageshooters.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by sharpshooter http://www.savageshooters.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?p=118649#post118649)

The tip of the firing pin will never indent the primer over about .025". It will bottom out on the anvil of the primer. Typically the protrusion is set from the factory at about .055", which is plenty long and all it does is limit the firing pin travel, giving less impact energy. .035" is optimum.

[Mr. Bruce]

http://www.savageshooters.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by sharpshooter http://www.savageshooters.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?p=118649#post118649)

The tip of the firing pin will never indent the primer over about .025". It will bottom out on the anvil of the primer. Typically the protrusion is set from the factory at about .055", which is plenty long and all it does is limit the firing pin travel, giving less impact energy. .035" is optimum.

Not sure where he came up with that optimum protrusion. At .055" my Savages won't even fire. I set mine to .060". Maybe there's a difference in the method of measuring?

[Mr. Bruce]

Here's the method of measuring firing pin protrusion that I use: http://www.firearmstalk.com/entries/Disassembly-and-Reassembly-Savage-Model-10-Bolt.html

[thomae]

If you are not even getting a primer strike (no indent at all?) then you may have a headspace issue. It's a used rifle, so have you rechecked your headspace?

Storing a pin cocked will not weaken a spring, to the best of my knowledge.

[thomae]

Here's the method of measuring firing pin protrusion that I use: http://www.firearmstalk.com/entries/Disassembly-and-Reassembly-Savage-Model-10-Bolt.html

Here's a simpler method: http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?143-Firing-Pin-Protrusion-Data

[scpaul]

Tomorrow I'll ck the pin protrusion. Steve the tech. @ Savage Shooters Supply said that the pin should protrude .055". I didn't know that the firingpin was adjustable;it will be working soon! Thanks Ya'll,have-a-good-one Paul

[thomae]

Some of the newer firing pins are not adjustable.

[scpaul]

Thomae, G-mornin', I'll ck. it by ck'ing the pin diameter to see if it is a newer one (modified because the s/n would indicate thr older style system) Thinking about it there must have been a problem of some sort;all else being the same(pin weight,spring pressure,protrusion,etc)reducing the pin diadeter increased the P.S.I. due to the reduced impact area. Paul

[joeb33050]

http://www.savageshooters.com/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by sharpshooter http://www.savageshooters.com/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?p=118649#post118649)

The tip of the firing pin will never indent the primer over about .025". It will bottom out on the anvil of the primer. Typically the protrusion is set from the factory at about .055", which is plenty long and all it does is limit the firing pin travel, giving less impact energy. .035" is optimum.
I'd like to understand this; "limit the firing pin travel"??

[thomae]

Ok, I freely admit that I am nowhere as smart as Sharpshooter when it comes to Savage Rifles, but:

1a) scpaul: I believe the diameter of the firing pin (at least near the tip) is the same for both the adjustable and the non-adjustable firing pins. The only way I know to tell what kind of firing pin I might have is to disassemble the bolt. If I am wrong, please educate me.

1b) I looked up Savage Shooters Supply on the internet and could find nothing. Do you mean Sharp Shooter Supply? In that case we are talking about Fred Moreo who goes by the handle "Sharpshooter" on this forum. He is the source of the quote I posted.

2) joeb3305: The primer consists of a cup (soft metal) and an anvil (harder metal) behind the cup. When hit by the firing pin, the cup deforms and allows the priming compound between the cup and the anvil to be squeezed, hit, compressed (whatever you want to call it) between the cup and the anvil until it ignites. The firing pin will not significantly dent or deform the anvil, so the anvil is what stops the forward movement of the firing pin. In a properly headspaced rifle, any firing pin protrusion over and above what is required to ignite/detonate the primer, is, in essence, wasted energy.

Since the location of the primer relative to the firing pin is determined by the brass, if there is too much headspace, (due either to an incorrectly installed barrel, incorrectly sized brass, or some other lesser occurring issue) there may be room for the whole loaded cartridge to move forward "too far" in the chamber. If this happens, then the energy of the firing pin moves the cartridge forward and then reaches it's own limit and stops forward movement before there is enough energy transferred to the primer to initiate the ignition sequence.

I hope that helps to make things clearer. There are likely other forum members who can explain it better than I.

[Patch700]

Not sure where he came up with that optimum protrusion. At .055" my Savages won't even fire. I set mine to .060". Maybe there's a difference in the method of measuring?

.055" is still a bit deep , in my 6.5x284 with the pin set for a depth of .058" i was getting false pressure signs on the primer... Reduced it to .040 and the load showed no more cratering ..

I will say that maybe where some folks run into trouble when they reduce pin travel is not ensuring the proper installed height for the spring , my target action when inspected was out of adjustment in this area as well... After the pin depth and spring height adjustment i not only noticed my primers looking better i also noticed my ES #'s dropped to single digits from previous 12-15fps deviations.

[scpaul]

I have 2 dial calipers,1 dial & 1 electronic. I use them to ck. 1 against the other, the measurements are virtually identical. I'm the using the electronic for convience. Firingpin diameter is .066,the protrusion is.075-.077, is, .020-.022 enough to warrant adjustment ? According to the S/N (F24xxxx) shouldn't it have the larger diameter firingpin ? What is it's diameter, I'm wondering if the prior owner had these problems. Paul