Advice for .284 Winchester build

[leadlauncher]

I am in the planning stages of building a (AI style) magazine fed precision rifle in .284 winchester. My objectives for this build are to engage a 10 inch target at 1000 yards on demand under field conditions, to shoot a perfect F Class score, and to kill whatever (up to deer size) that I feel the need to shoot when hunting. I chose the .284 because it is capable of meeting these requirements, and doing so with reasonable powder efficiency and recoil, 2000 rounds of barrel life, and enough energy to kill a deer size animal out to 1,000 yards, should I feel the need to do so. I will probably use 162gr AMAXs to keep costs reasonable, over a charge of RE17. This rifle needs to be as accurate as possible, and light enough for a sane person to walk around with in a mountainous environment. A folding stock would be a plus for transportation, and I'd like to keep the costs down to around $1500. I'm open to general suggestions and build ideas, however I have a couple initial concerns.

Short Vs. Long action.
loading a .284 to .308 mag length and getting just shy of 3000 fps has been done before, but why? Why not just use a long action and not worry about it, and in addition be capable of using 180 bergers should I feel the need to pay 40 cents per bullet? On the other hand, .284 bullets feed reliably out of .308 magazines with a little feed lip modification, I don't know whether or not that is true with 300 win mag magazines.

Throating.
There is a big difference in OAL between a .284 squished down to .308 magazine length and and one seated at a more normal where less of the bullet is inside the case. I noticed that McGowen advertises match grade .284 barrels in stock shipping in a week. How are these barrels throated? How about Pac-Nor's higher grade drop ins? Any other suggestions?

Stocks.
The easy button for this is to just use an accu-stock. They are accurate and bolt on bottom metal is available. In fact, the easy button for this whole build is to buy a model 10 FCP-SR, a prefit barrel, and a couple extra mags, screw them together and call it a day, or, for a long action buy a .30-06 with accustock/accustrigger, buy the drop in bottom metal made specifically for the accustock from midway, and create the same thing. Either of these options land me somewhere in the $1300 zone. The other option is to use a chasis system like the XLR etc. This would put me more around $1500 and give me a folding stock, a pistol grip, and an adjustable stock, all features I like. The only downside is that a lot of those system are made of alluminum, and I kind of like a non-metal gripping surfaces for things that may sit out in the hot sun, or the snow, with me for extended times.

Anyway, send me your thoughts and ideas. Thanks in advance.

[shoalwater]

I am building a 284 right now as well, though mine will be just a long range hunting rifle. I chose the 284 to be able to kill deer out to a 1000 without being punishing to shoot like the magnums would be. I am building on a long action so I can magazine feed with bullets seated way out.

I think you are probably asking a little much out of one rifle. First off, to shoot a perfect f-class score at a grand you better be an unbelievable shoot/wind reader with a really I mean really outstanding rifle/load combo. Most guys that are shooting perfect scores with 284's are running 32" bull bbls throated for the 180's in a 20 pound rifle. I don't think you want to lug that thing up and down the mountains.

As far as bbl choices, I have bbls from both the companies you listed and both make good bbls. Although I think Pac-Nors are probably little better,but they will be a 4 to 6 month wait. I've had really good luck with Pac-Nor barrels, so to me they are worth the wait.

The accu stocks have narrow forearms, which is not going to be very good when trying to shoot f-class off a rest and rear bag. It sounds crazy, but the torque generated by the fast twist barrel and heavy bullets will actually make the stock want to role when shooting from a rest. I would suggest something like a Manners TA or a Stockade Muledeer type stock for a dual purpose hunting/competition stock.

If I could only build one rifle to do everything you want I would build a dedicated competition rifle, and then buy an axis to hunt with. Just to hard to do everything in one rifle.

[handirifle]

I am curious about your build in two main areas. First is a barrel light enough to pack around a lot and stay MOA to 1000 yds. The second is a folding stock that will do the same. Some interesting challenges you have given yourself.

[handirifle]

I posted on his double post, but I basically echo'd shoalwater's comments, but not in the detail mentioned. Seems to me, too often these "long range hunting" shows are making people think these guys actually carry these rifles a long way to get those shots. In reality they are motored very close to where the shot is taken and that 15lb rifle and the myriad of hardware and software necessary to pull it off are all unloaded and set up. I'm not condemning them or their skill, but I wish they would truly show it like it is.

A noble goal, but not very likely, in my mind.

[handirifle]

But I never mentioned, I do like the caliber choice. Except why not a 280 AI, since it's a long action? Would that put you back in the same situation as the 284 in a short action, for OAL?

[FW Conch]

JMHO ;-))... To use the 284 in a short action, some performance has to be given up, and your requirements aren't conducive to giving anything up. Your requirements deserve a long action. That being said, why not consider the 280RemAI? It has more case capacity and the cases are more easily available at this time of shortages. As others have said above, it's not real practical to try to have one rifle that does it all?

Again....JMHO ;-)).......Jim

[shoalwater]

You can run a 280 AI on a Savage long action just fine. I am getting ready to build a twin to the 284 I am building except in 280 AI, for a buddy. If you wanted something like CDI bottom metal with AICS mags you can get 3.625" COL in those long action mags, thats a seating depth of around .400" for the 180 Berger Hybrids. If you run the Accurate-Mag bottom metal with the longer mags you can get all the way out to 3.770", which is what I plan to run for an ELR build I have planned, if I can find a money tree. **** this addiction gets expensive. I am building on an Axis action, which limits COL to about 3.46" so that is one of the reasons I chose the 284 over the 280AI for my build. Had I had an extra stainless regular long action instead of a stainless Axis action laying around I probably would have gone 280AI.

[idahoorion]

Leadlauncher,

in addition to thoughts on the above post, barrel contour on a hunting guns is going to be in the #4 or #5 contour category, otherwise your mule will get too tired. If you go and reference Longrange Hunting you'll see that most hunting guns are build on these to keep the total wt at about 10# for the gun/optic, you can use a 5 contour and flute to get the wt closer to a 4. This contour will allow 1000 yard shooting especially braked. but you will have to allow the barrel to cool. regarding chamber freebore, to extend the long slender bullets out, you could get a regular chamber and have a gunsmith use a throating reamer to fit your chosen load. Your reloading skills are going to need upgraded. and your rangefinder likely will as well.

I tried this with a #8 brux, and it's just too heavy, I am using a #3 bartlein (same as 4 brux) contour, braked, now, when I looked at the chambers to drive a 168 or 180 class bullet to 800 plus yards with hunting energy, I considered 280ai but had a mag action right here and chose 7mmRemMag good luck, the process is lots of fun with some frustrations thrown in.
Idahoorion

[tammons]

I will be putting together a 284 win tactical hunter soon and I would run a long action so you can hang the bullets out beyond short action mag length.
The 284 win is a long case.

I personally would have a 24" #6 contour barrel made. Over RL17 in a throated (if its needed) barrel at 3.1 COL which works for the 162 amax you should be right at 3000+ FPS.

My rig will be...
Savage SS long action, top release
Machined recoil lug
SSS trigger
Bell and Carlson Carbolite stock milled out for a DBM
PTG bottom metal
AICS mags
Barrel of some sort
Burris rings
Vortex HS-T 6-24x Milrad

Should weigh about 10#
Swap out to a heavy stock for target.

This is what I come up with for weights with an internal mag

Long Action base and recoil lug with internal mag - 38 oz
LA carbolite stock - 32 oz
24" bbl with nut - 64 oz
Talley rings - 4 oz
Vortex 6-24 HS-T - 23 oz

Here is one..Not a savage but...
http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek095.html

[CharlieNC]

Ditto shoalwater's comments about stock and heavy barrel for F-class accuracy vs lighter weight desire for hunting. To elaborate on the stock a bit more the designs for accurate prone shooting don't usually fit the handling characteristics for hunting. With your budget you could buy both a basic hunting rifle and build a nice range-specific rifle to meet your described needs.

[tammons]

For strictly a hunter you could just ream a 7mm-08 sporter barrel to 284 or just buy a cheap 7mm-08 axis or stevens and have that barrel reamed and that would save you a lot of weight then set up your target rifle with a 26" bbl, Choate stock etc.

Also a scope set up for real 1000 yard competition is probably not going to be the best choice for hunting and visa versa.

Any 284 based cartridge reamer should clean up from a 308 based cartridge.
Thats how I got my 338-284 - I reamed a 338 fed barrel.

[leadlauncher]

Guys,
Thanks a lot. Great comments. You guys have a point true precision long range rifles are a bit of a specialized animal and not great for all purpose use. My 6.8 SPC and .308 are my preferred weapons for mid range stuff, I'm really looking for a long gun. My goal is to build something field worthy with a genuine long range precision capability. I am OK with specializing somewhat for that capability. I have other platforms for other purposes. That leads me to the comment on optics. Eventually this gun will probably wear a Steiner 5-25 MSR, although I'm pretty tempted toward the Leupold Mk VI with the TReMR 2. This will be biased as a long distance rifle. It will probably be zeroed at 100, trued at a thousand, and then I will use software to find an optimum scope setting or reticle hold that will enable me to hold center of mass and stay within a 10 inch kill zone from point blank to max possible distance. That way I'll have a zero calculation hold out to a certain distance (I am guessing somewhere around 400) and I can start cranking and using reticle holdover after that. The scope will be zero-stopped at 100 so if I get lost in the sauce I can just return to zero and go from there.
It sounds like long action is the way to go, and the .280 AI is a good option. Thanks for the barrel advice. Also, good thought on barrel torque and forend width. If you are shooting from a bipod attached to the underside of the forend this is less of a stock issue and more of a bipod issue. However, if you are shooting from certain F-class "bipods," sand bags, or field expedient rests like the hood of a truck, forend width is a legit problem. The another stock issue is the width of the toe. It's very helpful if the toe is a little wider so it tracks well in a rear rest.