Long range testing

[Luke45]

Is it better to test long range loads (600+) with a crosswind or the wind at your back or face? What would give you best consistency for testing to see what load is working better? I've always been a hardcore hunter and re-loader, but 600+ yards is still relativity new to me.

[eddiesindian]

Ive found that a "constant" crosswind yield,s more consistant hits at 1K. Ive dealt with winds from every direction and the more you do it, the more you learn. Ive also found that winds behind me or in frt of me to not change my POI (that much) in relation to crosswinds. Ive dealt with more crosswinds than anything else due to the terrain where we shoot from 10ft out to 1 mile. In southwest Texas, theres plenty of wide open mountain valleys with (depending on the season)constant cross winds
As far as testing your long range loads?......IMO....if they consistantly group nice and tight at 100, then you,ll get better results at longer ranges.
Im sending 150/175gr SMK,s (using 2 different rigs) out to 1K with good results. Only difference Ive found is that I have to hold more windage on the lighter pills (as expected).
The day you take your time and read the wind correctly and hit on the 1st shot out to 1K deserves a steak dinner I say......

[Luke45]

Ive found that a "constant" crosswind yield,s more consistant hits at 1K. Ive dealt with winds from every direction and the more you do it, the more you learn. Ive also found that winds behind me or in frt of me to not change my POI (that much) in relations to crosswinds. Ive dealt with more crosswinds than anything else due to the terrain where we shoot from 10ft out to 1 mile. In southwest Texas, theres plenty of wide open mountain valleys with (depending on the season)constant cross winds
As far as testing your long range loads?......IMO....if they consistantly group nice and tight at 100, then you,ll get better results at longer ranges.
Im sending 150/175gr SMK,s (using 2 different rigs) out to 1K with good results. Only difference Ive found is that I have to hold more windage on the lighter pills (as expected).
The day you take your time and read the wind correctly and hit on the 1st shoot out to 1K deserves a steak dinner I say......

Awesome thanks for the advice! i was debating whether to go to the range tomorrow, 12mph wind in face or Sunday with a 5mph crosswind fro the range ill be shooting at. I think ill just do both and see what happens! 100 and 200 yards is starting to get boring with my new biuld now that ive got my handloads tuned, time to step it out there

[yobuck]

in my opinion its best to test loads with little or no wind. its the accuracy of the load were seeking not our ability to judge wind.
once the load has been established shooting under different conditions is good practice.

[fgw_in_fla]

I gotta agree with Buck. For testing & looking for that elusive accuracy node, I like a nice calm day. After the accuracy node (or accurate ammo) has been tested & proven, it goes out for try outs in any & every kind of weather.
And, at different ranges / distances...

[Luke45]

I gotta agree with Buck. For testing & looking for that elusive accuracy node, I like a nice calm day. After the accuracy node (or accurate ammo) has been tested & proven, it goes out for try outs in any & every kind of weather.
And, at different ranges / distances...

Thanks guys, Ive had good tests at 100-200 yards and the load is proven. just not at long range yet

[eddiesindian]

Your on the money Luke. Seeing as how youve already established your loads from 100 out to 200 then your set for distance. What Ive found is that when Im tosisng them out to 1K out in the mountain valleys, I get more consistant/tighter groupings/hits. When im tossing them out to 1K at the range, the groups open up quite a bit due to high/low safety dirt burms and barriers. the wind may be constant from 3 to 500 and swirls from 6-800yds...makes for good schooling lessons in reading winds.
The range I speak of is a military range thats open to the public (Ft Bliss..El Paso Tx.)...I often run into trained military snipers who like to sit down with civilian shooters and have shoot offs. The one thing ive learned is that there training in depth. there ballistic calculators are great and useful tools but the bottom line?....is Im doing the same thing they are. Course Im not having rds comming at me either. lolo. Sometimes theres 3-4 of our military snipers sitting down tossing rds with me and were all looking thru glass down range trying to justify our windage adjustments. Lucky for them, Ive placed wind flags @ 3-7-1000yds to make life easier.
I think youll be ok luke as long as your ballistic calculations are spot on. all inputs into what ever ballistic calculators your using have to be correct.
For me....once I develope,d consistant and accurate loads,calculated drop,adjustments on rig,etc.etc.etc.....Ive found that reading the wind is by far the hardest thing to do for one shot one hit @ 1K
When you do go out to distnace, it always nice to have a good/trust worthy shooting spotter to verify your hits/miss,s...
Good luck................

[Jetpig]

It is hard to find 600-1K meters without wind. Early morning or late evening seems always best in most places.
Best training ever for making all these calculations is sitting on a prairie dog town that stretches for miles in the springtime. Get rid of those laser rangefinders and use the mildot. You can shoot all day and educate educate educate! (Well you use to be able to shoot all day when you could find powder)

[missed]

I would rather have the crosswind. I live in Texas too and to make it to the range with no wind I may as well hold my breath.... With our normal range I typically have a tail wind or head wind and you are just forced to read the wind while you shoot its just part of stretching it out.

[yobuck]

It is hard to find 600-1K meters without wind. Early morning or late evening seems always best in most places.
Best training ever for making all these calculations is sitting on a prairie dog town that stretches for miles in the springtime. Get rid of those laser rangefinders and use the mildot. You can shoot all day and educate educate educate! (Well you use to be able to shoot all day when you could find powder)

the education will be good for that day in that location. next day in a new location it starts all over again. best to just put the rangefinder
away till next time you need it. but i agree the dots work well on prairie dogs once youve got the town figured out.

[82boy]

To start, you need to understand wind, and its affects on bullet, travel. If at all possible never tune in a head wind or a tail wind, as these two winds are the most difficult to read, and affect bullet travel the most. These two winds not only introduce vertical, but they also have some horizontal built into them, do to the barrel twist. So with that said a head wind will send the bullet down and to the left, and a tail wind will send the bullet up and to the right, depending on the speed of the wind will very how far the bullet moves. Also head winds and tail winds are difficult to see movement on wind flags, as the flags are pointed towards or away from you, and subtle movement is hidden behind the tails or if you have propellers. Here is an article that may help http://www.uslink.com/~tom1/windvector.htm

Others have said to tune on the calm days, and well that is not the answer either. Shooting in the calm can be one of the most frustrating things on earth. Calm days can produce affects unreadable by wind flag, and mirage, and make you scratch you head or worse off kick or throw something. If I had to pick between two choice on of them shooting in rain with a 10 mph cross wind, or shooting a nice sunny day that is calm, I would choose the rain and wind any day.

Now going on with that said if you have the chance to pick wind a nice day that has a consistent cross wind. The thing is I have had few days where I could pick the weather and wind conditions, and most times I just have to go out and deal with what I got. This is a better thing, as you learn a lot about your rifle and reading conditions.

Two last things one if your tuning a 600 yard gun, don't waste your time shooting at 100 yards, if you have the ability of longer ranges. Preferably tune at 300 yards, if you don't have it 200 will suffice. Don't always pick the smallest group, but look for the group that is more wind tolerable. (Check out Tony Boyer's Book for explanation.)

[Luke45]

Thanks for the replies, took it out today at 600. 5 shot 4 inch group and 5 shot 2.9 inch group. Very pleased, wind was light crosswind had to hold 1 Moa into it

[eddiesindian]

in my opinion its best to test loads with little or no wind. its the accuracy of the load were seeking not our ability to judge wind.
once the load has been established shooting under different conditions is good practice.

+1..............

[eddiesindian]

Thanks for the replies, took it out today at 600. 5 shot 4 inch group and 5 shot 2.9 inch group. Very pleased, wind was light crosswind had to hold 1 Moa into it

bam...and there you have it.............
Its easier to do than one thinks.
start sending them out further....for me?.....the fun starts past 7
congrates on your new addiction.....................

[squirrelsniper]

Load testing or match shooting is a lot different than taking a hunting shot. I say that because for a hunting (or tactical) shot that I plan to be just one round hitting a certain point, I'll pick a headwind (personal preference). But, when you have to shoot several successive shots, you need a wind you can read not just once, but over and over again. Therefore I'll take a crosswind when ammo testing or during a comp. Just as a personal preference, I like a steady 8-10mph wind from my 9 o'clock. Personally, tailwinds seem to be my undoing. Of course I would like no wind, and I've shot in times with very little wind, but I don't think I've ever shot long range in NO wind.

Now, I know a lot of people who haven't spent time shooting long range or doing any BR type stuff are thinking "Why in the world would you prefer a crosswind?" So, I'll explain a bit and try to keep it short and to the point.

Mainly, you know what you're getting when you have a crosswind. As everyone who has ever paid attention to the wind can tell you, the wind never stays exactly from one direction. So even though it is predominantly from one direction, it will shift around a little bit. So, let's say you have a wind from 9 o'clock but it's really switching between 8 and 10 o'clock at various times. That's a change, but as long as the speed stays the same, there won't be much change in point of impact.

Now lets say you try the same thing with a tailwind from 6 o'clock, but it's really switching between 5 and 7 o'clock. Assuming the wind speed doesn't change and makes things worse, at long range that switch is just enough to keep POI switching left and right. Also, although it isn't terribly noticeable to most people, there is also a vertical component to shooting in either headwinds or tailwinds.

In the end, while the crosswind may actually move the bullet more inches, at least you know which way each bullet is going to go. In a headwind/tailwind, it's often uncertain whether the bullet is going left or right. Also, it's easier to read a crosswind simply because it's crossing in front of you, while it's hard to pick up changes in wind that's either coming straight at or going straight away from you.

As for wind speed, I've found 8-10mph (in my area at least) to be about the mininum to ensure the direction is fairly constant. When the speed drops to 5mph or so, you can get sudden unexpected changes. Then of course once it goes above 15mph or so it has so much effect on long range bullet flight that it takes an experienced shooter to deal with it.

[sniper15545]

To start, you need to understand wind, and its affects on bullet, travel. If at all possible never tune in a head wind or a tail wind, as these two winds are the most difficult to read, and affect bullet travel the most. These two winds not only introduce vertical, but they also have some horizontal built into them, do to the barrel twist. So with that said a head wind will send the bullet down and to the left, and a tail wind will send the bullet up and to the right, depending on the speed of the wind will very how far the bullet moves. Also head winds and tail winds are difficult to see movement on wind flags, as the flags are pointed towards or away from you, and subtle movement is hidden behind the tails or if you have propellers. Here is an article that may help http://www.uslink.com/~tom1/windvector.htm

Others have said to tune on the calm days, and well that is not the answer either. Shooting in the calm can be one of the most frustrating things on earth. Calm days can produce affects unreadable by wind flag, and mirage, and make you scratch you head or worse off kick or throw something. If I had to pick between two choice on of them shooting in rain with a 10 mph cross wind, or shooting a nice sunny day that is calm, I would choose the rain and wind any day.

Now going on with that said if you have the chance to pick wind a nice day that has a consistent cross wind. The thing is I have had few days where I could pick the weather and wind conditions, and most times I just have to go out and deal with what I got. This is a better thing, as you learn a lot about your rifle and reading conditions.

Two last things one if your tuning a 600 yard gun, don't waste your time shooting at 100 yards, if you have the ability of longer ranges. Preferably tune at 300 yards, if you don't have it 200 will suffice. Don't always pick the smallest group, but look for the group that is more wind tolerable. (Check out Tony Boyer's Book for explanation.)
I agree with 82boy However its as important to be able to read mirage as it is wind.

[eddiesindian]

I agree with 82boy However its as important to be able to read mirage as it is wind.

roger that....mirage is sure useful when theres no tree/flags/bush,s/leaves etc....

[Luke45]

Thanks a lot for the insight!

[yobuck]

all of the above is good information for a shooter. hunting situations however dont always allow for
the time needed for close evaluation so be prepared for follow up shots. if "you" with the equiptment
you have cant stay on target after the shot, or follow a running animal that might be hit till it stops,
then you need to be working on other things in addittion to shooting skills. first round hits should
always be strived for. but the reality is you wont always drop an animal with your first shot.
coping with the aftermath of a miss is very important. where i hunt misses are sometimes planned.

[Luke45]

all of the above is good information for a shooter. hunting situations however dont always allow for
the time needed for close evaluation so be prepared for follow up shots. if "you" with the equiptment
you have cant stay on target after the shot, or follow a running animal that might be hit till it stops,
then you need to be working on other things in addittion to shooting skills. first round hits should
always be strived for. but the reality is you wont always drop an animal with your first shot.
coping with the aftermath of a miss is very important. where i hunt misses are sometimes planned.

Im new to long range shooting, not hunting.