Is my scope too far forward?

[1.618]

I'm mounting a Leupold Mark 4 (6.5-20X50mm) on my Savage 12 F-Class on a steel Picatinny rail, and I'm in the process of assembling everything the way it all feels comfortable, and had a question.

With hunting rifles, I've always liked to really pull my cheek far forward on the stock when shooting, because it feels like a more tight/solid "weld" to me, and it seems like it's more "reproducible" that way, rather than having my cheek "just somewhere" on the cheekpiece such that the eye relief is right.

I'm not sure whether this is considered the best way to do things with a long-range rifle, but it's how I'm trying to set up my Savage 12.

Well, I got my scope where I wanted it, then I figured I should separate the two rings as far as possible, to try to minimize errors/inconsistency caused by the scope flexing or moving in the rings.

So what that meant is that the forward ring is as far forward on the Picatinny rail as it can go ... about an inch forward of where contact between the rail and the receiver ends.

Is this bad, possibly because the rail, and thus the scope, isn't as well supported there?

The rail is steel, but I suspect it moves (at least temporarily) when the gun recoils. Is this a concern?

Is there any reason I shouldn't mount the forward scope ring further forward than the end of the receiver? Is the forward ring "OK" out on that cantilevered extension of the Picatinny rail?

Sorry for the long post but I wasn't sure how to explain it without pictures. Thanks in advance for any replies.

[pitsnipe]

My .02 is that the rings should be as far apart as you can on the tube. If in the last lug of the pic rail that's OK, just make sure that BOTH rings are on the base, pushed forward in the lug recess, THEN mount the scope to them. The farther apart the better. As for proper eye relief. What will be your MOST COMMON position when using this weapon? Prone? Bench? Kneeling? Standing?. As that would be the position you would determine proper eye relief with. I have the same glass. With the scope in the rings but loose enough to move: Establish your COMMON shooting position WITH YOUR EYES CLOSED, shoulder the weapon. Establish "comfortable" cheek weld, open your eye. What do you see? All black? Pinpoint hole? Now have someone else slide the scope carefully in the rings to establish a full view of the scope. Repeat the mount with your eyes closed. Then open to confirm position is "normal". Relax when doing this, and confirm it several times. Align the reticle to vertical, and torque the rings to specs (don't break a screw just had to say that :) ;) You are done. And at 6.5 power the eye relief will be forever so not critical to alignment.


Snipe

[1.618]

Thanks Snipe, that makes a lot of sense.

Can't break a screw ... because none of the holes are blind (and these are ebay Chinee rings)! http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/lol8.gif

[RP12]

One more thing, I always set eye relief with the scope at it's highest magnification.

[1.618]

Thanks guys.

Seems like no matter how I use it, at any magnification setting, I still want to push the scope even further forward, so I guess I'll just put it as far forward as it'll go, and see how that works...

[pitsnipe]

1.618,

As a VERY general rule the ocular end of the scope will be lined up with the center line (trigger to the front and comb to the rear) of the stocks hand grip. basically center line to the but cap of the stock. From there, a bit of fudge forward and back for fine tuning. Remember that layers of clothing will "throw" this off a bit more. So the better the glass the better the exit pupil= easier to get a complete sight picture.
p.s. Meant to state use the scopes highest setting when establishing proper eye relief. Thought it, didn't type it. Sucks getting old. Thanks for the back up RP-12.



Snipe

[BobT]

Thanks Snipe, that makes a lot of sense.

Can't break a screw ... because none of the holes are blind (and these are ebay Chinee rings)! http://d26ya5yqg8yyvs.cloudfront.net/lol8.gif

One thing I'm really curious about, why would drop serious coin on a MK4 and put it in a set of cheap rings ?

Bob

[1.618]

One thing I'm really curious about, why would drop serious coin on a MK4 and put it in a set of cheap rings ?

Didn't really see the point of spending $$$$$ on scope rings, and couldn't find a set with the parameters I wanted (30mm, steel, med ht, for a Pic base) for under $100, which seemed like about $99.98 past absurd to me.

I'll Loctite them, bed them, and see what I get. Maybe it's worth $100+ for rings but I'm going to need a LOT more convincing of that. This is for a fifteen-pound 6.5-284, not a 460 Wby.

[BobT]

Didn't really see the point of spending $$$$$ on scope rings, and couldn't find a set with the parameters I wanted (30mm, steel, med ht, for a Pic base) for under $100, which seemed like about $99.98 past absurd to me.


I have had good luck with the Burris Signature Zee rings I have a couple sets of 30MM and haven't had any problems, my son-in-law is running a set on a Savage LRH in .300 WM with a pretty heavy scope and he has had no trouble either.

[Jamie]

Didn't really see the point of spending $$$$$ on scope rings, and couldn't find a set with the parameters I wanted (30mm, steel, med ht, for a Pic base) for under $100.

Rings are an extremely important part of the set up. You may get lucky and they work out for you but there are multiple rings for under $100 that I would buy in a heartbeat. By far my favorite set of rings are Leupold PRW, can be picked up in in that 450-$60 range. I have never had a single issue with either of those. Then you could also pick up a set of Warne rings in the $50 range.

[1.618]

Thanks, guys.

Yes, I know that what the rings do is extremely important, but I also know that they aren't particularly sophisticated in design, complex in operation, or difficult to make. They're basically clamps.

Some things are worth spending fairly decent money on, but I don't consider clamps to be one of them.

These were $30 and they look just fine. Time will tell and YMMV.

[Jamie]

Some things are worth spending fairly decent money on, but I don't consider clamps to be one of them.

I hope they work very well for you, they never did for me, but as you stated YMMV.

[AZ_GUN_NUT]

If you shop around the different forums you never know what kind of deal you might find. I picked up a set of like new Leupold MK4 30mm rings for $40 shipped not too long ago.