I wrung the 2506AI out a lil today

[j_22250]

your full of bull. if a 25-06ai can run a 100 gr. at 3850, then a 270wsm can certainly do the same or better and if it can't than i am certainly the next one in line to buy a 25-06, and i guarantee you it will be the cheapest pile i can find, cuz that is what i think they are worth. when shooting those lighter bullets the .25 cal will always have the advantage over a 270 and i give you that, but if you do not beleive a 243ai can acheive a velocity of 3300fps w/ a 100gr. bullet than i encorage you to actually go and find out for yourself, by spending at least a couple hundred dollars. if a hot 243 load can push them at 3100fps than why cant the ai version be able to do at least 200fps more? after all your 25-06ai is pushing them 400fps more than usual and lights out on baffalo with a 25-06? what? do you shoot them point blank in a cage or what? i can't beleive i'm actually doing this right now. i don't care about your quarter bore hand cannon and i am quite happy with my current caliber of choice so why aren't you? it's obviously that your not or you wouldn't be on here trying to prove it? jst take me as some fool on the internet talking about something i know nothing about....i honestly don't really care. i myself tho, as a responsible hunter would rather shoot at a baffalo with a .277 cal. than a .25 cal. and if we lived in the early 1900's then i certainly wouldn't think twice about shooting one with a 30-30.

if i were you, i would def. check into getting my chronograph looked at cuz i think it may be off a couple hundred fps off.

p.s i hope your not that same fool i've been talking about that always pisses me off when he talks about how great his rusty old peice of scrap iron is.

the speeds i posted were an educated guess and so your research doesnt' really mean all that much to me. if you want i can contact you when i have an actual load for 90 gr. bullets in my 270wsm. which may be never, but i jst thoughr i would be nice and offer tho.

[Nitroused383]

No point in argueing, all I am saying shoot what you are comfortable with because they will all kill if you hit them in the right spot. Why limit yourself to one gun. I have a custom 3000 RUM that shoots 125 noslers @ 3950 FPS, yes thats nice but its far from what the gun is meant for. My 25-06 ai is my deer gun and I enjoy it, I built it so its what I wanted. The 25-06 ai has a pretty big bite for its non magnum status. Please don't disrespect outlawkyote just because you have personal issues with some guy and his pile of scrap. Outlaw has provided a ton of great info over the years and he has no agendas to prove. He likes 25-06's and they work great for him. It sounds like you have some personal issues against the 25-06 but not personal experience actually using it so settle down. I am pretty sure his load and setup are posted on here. 30" barrel 1-9" twist 62 grains of RL 22 with fed 210 primers. He also has a load around here with 100 grain matchkings that he did a 30 shot group with that was pretty damn impressive.

[savageboy]

You know, I really like this site for the info, the great group of enthusiasts that share a common love of accurate shooting on somewhat of a budget (we are into Savages not custom BAT actions,etc aren't we?) It really stinks when someone starts a nice informative thread and someone else has an opinion- thats ok, but when we start this 3rd grade I gotta be right crap while I'm sitting behind the keyboard... it kinda ruins what I believe the intent of this site originally was. We are all on the same team here- We= gun owners, we stick together.
The ones that want to take ur guns- they= the bad people that we need to stick together against!!

[outlawkyote]

I think your just struggling with an inferiority complex.

By all means.... Look me up when you get that 270 and 90's shooting. ;)

[j_22250]

thanks for putting your insults in the nicest way possible. i'm going to have to google inferiortity complex, cuz i don't know what it means. hahahaha. i'm kidding, listen let me apoligize if i offended anyone. outlaw you seem like a very knowledgable guy, but and in all honesty a 30" barrel heck, thats jst not very menuveralbe at all. one of my custom guns has a 26" barrel and it's almost too damn long to hunt with. no i do not own a 25-06 i've shot them and i like the fact they have a light recoil and plenty of power. yes, even i will admit it has one of the best reputations for a long range deer caliber. i have checked into gettin one on more than one occasion and all the load data tht i have ever looked at stops at around 3400fps with lighter bullets. trust me, i have done more than my fair share of reasearch in pursuite of the perfect cartridge, damn near drove me nutz. my main reason for coming here was cuz i was thinking about building a 257ai, cuz performance matches that of a 25-06 and i was hoping to be to stuff it in a short action. 70-85gr. bullets should blow up better than outta a .243. long story short from your original postings i jst find it really hard to beleive that you can go from shooting a 115 bullet at 3400fps to then adding an extra .5gr. and shoot one 15grs lighter and your able to get another 400fps. jst from my experience usually when you get into the higher pressures, velocity gains level off no matter on how much more powder you add. the only thing you gain is a loss in accuracy. can it be done? maybe and you probably did do it, but that is something that is not going to be acheived in every rifle.

since savages are cheap alot of younger guys are on hear looking around and may jst try out what you are saying for themselfs and i'd hate for someone to get their face blown off. somewhere around 55grs is a great starting load for a straight 25-06. you can proly get around 3200-3400fps and that is plenty fast, it's actually overkill. despite all the bull thats been said, there is still some pretty good info here and not to mention pretty entertaining. i never liked reading much, but can read this stuff all day. i've laughed more than been hot headed while typing this and from the very get go i stated i did not want to turn this into a pissing match so don't blame me if you think i high jacked this thread. good luck to all of you and god bless.

[j_22250]

Funkydiscobeaver; is that you? ::)

LMAO... Ive killed more deer in two years doing crop damage controle work than youve killed your whole life.
You wouldnt kill anything lager than deer with your 270? Why? is it inferior? I kill buffalo with my 2506 and the lights go right out.

Tell you what, you go start a thread about your 270 and I'll be an @$$ ( like yourself) and come over and rain on your parade. Your talking about standard cartridges in a wildcat reloading section.


hahaha, i'm guessing funkydiscobeaver is a troll. i would be more than happy to entertain your opinions about the 270 either straight or wsm in a new thread, but i am not going to, this crap is stupid and makes me sick too. you read my post wrong, yes i would shoot at stuff bigger than deer. all the way up to caribou and maybe even a moose even. 2,000 ft. lbs. of energy out to 400yrds. your bet. btw, the ballistic calc. i usually use is JBM. if you have a better one please let me know.

hey, nitrous i would also like to take a look at those pics of the coyote you shot with 85grainers. shoot me a pm and i'll give you my email so you can send them to me and thanks for not lashing out at me. even though we have different opinions i can tell we're still both on the right track.

[Apache]

Dang, go away for a bit and look what happens........ ::)

OutLaw......you're still a lightening rod! ;) ;D


Let's see....Outlaw's been around for a number of years....and has at least 2951 posts......and has an excellent reputation........done lots of work on other folks rifles, all with excellent results........REAL WORLD STUFF.

j_22250 has just started and has 16 posts.....admittedly no real experience with a 25-06......I think I KNOW whom to believe......and who is a jackass.

[j_22250]

the number of posts i have has no relevance to my experience and knowledge. if anything all that means is i spend more time outdoors than behind the computer. apache, i encorage you to go back and re-read things before calling me a jackass. i'm pretty sure that i made my intentions and apoligies clear in my first and last couple of posts.

outlaw, yes i am talking about a 270 in wildcat thread, but please read back on how it kept going. all i was trying to say is i dont need to spend more $$$ on guns, cuz i already have some good ones. and as i've said they are all good. i proly won't ever get those 90's for you, but i will post some info for you to jst do a little comparison.

[trappst]

Not to stir the pot but here are a few facts:

270 WSM will not reach the speeds you'd like with 90 and 100g bullets. At least not with a 24" barrel. How do I know? Been there, done that. The 270 WSM shines with the bullets it was intended for, 130 and 140g.

130g bullet running 3,400fps is nothing to laugh at.....and I think we both know the standard 270 Win. won't even touch those numbers. Both are great rounds though.

That's all I got.....I gots to be good since I just recently got into the quarter bore club! ;D

[j_22250]

yes, and the 25-06 will proly never shine with 130-140's. i may have to join the .25 bore club myself. if you built a 270wsm to shoot those 90 grainers than it could be done and i've seen other peoples loads showing up to 3,700fps. sierra spends a ton of $$$ to develop and research loads for us to use. way more than me anyways. lol. in their most current manual they use a savage action with a 26" barrel to test the 25-06ai. for the 100 & 115gr. bullets they are showing 57.1 and 54.5 grains of re-22 being a max load.

to be fair i'm going to compare a 90gr. hp bullet from both the 25-06ai and 270wsm, simply because they offer one for both cals. i want to be as fair as possible while doing this. i aso want to note that the .25-06ai has the advantage cuz it has a boat tail and the the one for .277cal does not. the 25-06ai used in sierras test also has a barrel that is 2" longer. i'm also going to be using h4831 SC as an example here, again because they show it for both cartridges and it has a simular burn rate to re-22. the book shows 61.5grs. of 4831 being the max for 25-06ai and a velocity of 3,600fps, again this is with 90gr. bullets. for the 270 wsm they show 73.5 being a max load and a velocity of 3,650fps. so they are both pretty dang close. now then, since it has been said that the damage is unlike anything else with a 25-06. then i jst want to point out that the potential for doing even more damage is greater with a bigger cal. given same weight bullits and velocities. in my rifle i'm using a max load from the sierra manual, even tho i'm shooting nosler's. with a charge of 65grs of h-4831sc i am seeing slight pressure signs. so i don't encourage anyone to ever load more than the book shows. since you have a 30" barrel it seems as though 3850fps is doable jst not practical.

[j_22250]

also, as i'm sure everyone already knows the 25-06 started out as a wildcat and is simply a necked down 270. since their creation people have alwasy been looking for the next best thing. you can't really say a 25-06 can do everything a 270 can and sometimes better. cause everybody that shoots longer ranges knows that lighter bullets fizzle out faster and heavier bullets retain more energy and buck the wind better. a 270wsm is slighty better than a 270win and in a shorter package which i like. jst like the 25-06ai is slightly better than 25-06. if we're both pissin' in the same pot than why are we arguing about who can fill it up faster?

savageboy, i liked your post and really don't want this to continue, but i want to people to acknowledge that i'm not completly wrong in my thinking and certainly don't like people calling me names.

outlaw, you maybe right maybe i do have an inferiortity complex, but then agian so might you. especially after tring so hard to prove me wrong. lol. :) anyways, i encourage everyone to go back and read my first couple of posts before bashing me. all i was doing was showing interest on topic and saying that i can't really afford to really go and spend $$$, when i already got some that will do the trick.

[outlawkyote]

Your right, I do have an inferiority complex but, not to anything in 277. My inferiority complex is only to the 257STW.

Ive spent many years wringing out the 2506 and its a real killer but then along came that damn 257STW and stole the thunder. Ive spent many years since then trying to compete with that dang flame thrower. I started over 5 years ago playing with the 2506AI trying to get velocities without the powder capacity and now Ive finally gotten close and still burning 10-15gr of powder less.

Until recently Ive been playing with hunting rifles but then Ive heard rumors that berger is planning a new extra high BC bullet for the quarter bore. Rumor Ive heard was that it would be a 125gr VLD with BC's that would rival the 338's. I quickly started a new build based on a very long 2506AI so I could be the first to start wringing that bullet out. Therefore I built a 30" Shilen 9 inch twisted rifle just for long range shooting (Ive got many, many hunting rifles already) so barrel length is only cumbersom while packing it from my truck to the shooting bench. This is a bench rifle only and weighs 24 pounds.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/outlawkyote/hunting%20photos/bigbertha2.jpg

This rifle was picking off Prairie Dogs at 450yds (longest distance in that area)without a breakin, sight in or a formal load development until the day I started this thread. It may not pack very well but it will flip PDs from heII.

As Ive said in previous messages, I was once in your possition (looking for the perfect cartridge) until I stumbled into my first 2506. Even my 7 mag, 280AI, 300win mag sat on the shelf because I enjoyed the 2506 so much.

You also got me on shooting caged buffalo but in my defence, the cage was 4 square miles in size and it was -10 degrees while I hunted for him.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/outlawkyote/hunting%20photos/buffalo0011.jpg

The guy that owns the buffalo uses a 220 swift to kill his own buffalo so using a 2506 was plenty large in my opinion although I used a 500S&W for my first buffalo until I realized that shot placement was the key.

I have also killed my share of elk with the 2506 also, they are big enough for anything but the dangerous bears in my opinion. The best part is no bone cruncher visits to re-align my neck after spending a whole day shooting it.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/outlawkyote/hunting%20photos/50calSWbuffalo-1.jpg

Anyhow, Ive done my homework and my data is proving it so to rain on my parade was asking for a quick retaliatory responce. No harm done on my end though, when you get that 270 wrung out look me up and we'll put them on paper, especially if berger would get off their arses and get me some of those new bullets they were designing.

Here is my 30 round 2506AI target shot at 300yds that was mentioned previously. It was only a 26" barrel though.
Velocity and accuracy can go hand in hand if you know what your doing. Its only 3690fps but adding 4" of barrel (as in my new 2506AI 30" long) really boosts tha velocity obviously?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y155/outlawkyote/targets/2506AI30rounds.jpg

[j_22250]

well, i've been doing some reasearch and even if i can push a 90gr. bullet at 3700fps it still loses 600 of it before it reaches 100yrds. lmao. all that talk for nothing. i didn't really want to burn that much powder anyways. the 110gr. v-max look interesting, but i'm gonna stick with the 140bt's at least for this hunting season. next year i'll get some berger 130's to try. i've been thinking and if i do get on board the .257 train i'm gonna go with something exotic and name it after a stripper. ;D. i'm scrapping my 257ai idea and thinking either 25-270wsm or 25-300 RSAUM or even a 6.5-270wsm; but if i do tht i might as well stick with what i got. my rem 700 after doing some work to it will put 3 in 1 hole at 100yrds. and shoots around 3/4" groups at 200 when i do my part. you may jst need to change cals. to beat that pesky 257stw. maybe .264 or .284, but shoot if you do that you might as well compromise and get a 270wsm. besides both berger and nosler have some of the best hunting bullets for this caliber. maybe i should keep quiet so sales don't jump up. lol. i'm not crazy or nothing so no sense in burning up powder, lead and $$$. especially since we seem to have enconterd some sort of shortage. l'll be sure to let you know what i come up with when i'm finished wringing out those 130gr. bergers.

[outlawkyote]

Dang, go away for a bit and look what happens........ ::)

OutLaw......you're still a lightening rod! ;) ;D


Let's see....Outlaw's been around for a number of years....and has at least 2951 posts......and has an excellent reputation........done lots of work on other folks rifles, all with excellent results........REAL WORLD STUFF.

j_22250 has just started and has 16 posts.....admittedly no real experience with a 25-06......I think I KNOW whom to believe......and who is a jackass.


LMAO!!!
Yeah, Lightning just seems to follow me :'(,

[Nitroused383]

Outlaw you need to try some IMR 7828ssc with the 115 grainers. With my 26" shilen I saw 3499 fps with 59.5 grains of 7828 behind the berger 115 vld. I went up to 60 grains but i think i blew out the stupid chronograph, it was over 15 feet away and I could see it rocking everytime I shot. I will play around with it some more tomorrow.

[okie2]

Ya that should be a good prairie dog round! I wonder how fast you could shoot the 85 grain noslers at? I really dont think I could get more than 3700 fps out of my 26" 1-10 twist shilen. Maybe I will have to try that load, my brass doesn't last long anyways.

the 87's will do 3920 fps 65 grs. imr 4831 26"barrel

[diriel]

My dang wallet can not really afford to hear about all this 25cal. madness.

A couple years ago I taught a friend of mine to reload. His father & law has a 2506, and he of course started reloading for it. Earlier this year he bought a 2506 marlin and has been reloading for it. He is an avid hunter, and he has the 25, a 270, and a 338 winmag. This season he bagged a dear with the 2506 using a barnes ttsx. Not sure which one it was right offhand.

Ok, so I have 24lbs of ADI 2217 (H1000). Got a kick @$$ deal on the powder. I had originally ordered 32lbs, and my friend bought 8 off me. He says that 2506 seems to like the powder pretty well. My question is, If i have my savage 111 re-barreled to 2506AI how well is my ADI2217 likely to work for me? I am thinking about the 115VLD and the Hornady 117 btsp bullets.

Have a good one,
Gary
P.S. I too would very much like to learn more of the 125gr VLD bullets. I prefer longer range shooting, so heavier bullets generally get the nod from me.

[Apache]

Assuming approximate 60grn loads ....... I think around 2800 rounds.


7000grns per lb. x 24lbs = 168000grns / 60grns = 2800

Burn out at least one barrel before doing it again. ;)

[Nitroused383]

Better question is why is Outlawkyote a guest now???
I tried H1000 and the 115 VLD's but I could never get very low velocity spreads. I shot over 300 115 VLDs to find the best powder, I used
H-1000, Retumbo, RL22, 7828sc, H4831sc and IMR 4831. I also tested primers and the CCI BR2 and WIN large rifle primers work best for me. IMR 4831 is hands down the most consistant and accurate powder. Since you have H1000 though here is my info.

H1000 and 115 VLDS:

60grs: 3200 fps
61grs: 3250 fps
62grs: 3285 fps
62.5grs: 3315 fps
63grs: 3350 fps shot a 1" group @ 300 yards but ES is around 50 fps

[diriel]

Thanks Nitroused383,

Well, an es of about 50 is at least 40 too much :( Around 900 to 1k the vertical begins to become a bit of a problem with such a large es. I should have thought more carefully when I snapped up that powder. At the moment my 6.5x55 BJAI barrel is really due for a change out. The round count is 2100 plus on it, groups are opening up now, and I am doing the chase the lands dance. Which all in all, thats a LOT of rounds down range. So I wont complain.

All in all part of why I am considering a 25 cal is because in the next year or so I will begin building a 250-3000AI for my daughter. I just figured since it was approaching time to rebarrel anyhow, why not at least keep bullet purchasing relatively simple. Heck, I may decide to just buy 2 short actions for (2) 250AI's at the same time. It may not get the speed of an long action AI, but talk about a truly sweet little round!

As for the H1000, at some point some day there will come a time where "just good enough to hunt with" will be fine. Ever so often a friend will drop by wanting me to help out with reloading ;D You can bet that if the powder is 'on me' I will push out some of my surplus if at all possible.

If I do go with the 250AI I will probably try out the upcoming IMR8208XBR powder in it. Studying Hodgdon's site the regular 250-3000 seems to do very well with that powder. The temp/humidity stability would be a real bonus too.

Have a good one,
Gary
P.S. Off topic, but the 338 Federal appears to do exceptionally well with the IMR8208XBR as well. At least according to Hodgdon.