Do I have a Go - NO GO Issue ?

[Hotolds442]

He's in Cali.

If the bolt won't close on a no-go, how can headspace be too long?
something else is at play here.

[stangfish]

I think Fred hit it on the head.
It sounds like to me that your case is shorter than the gauge by more than just a few thousandths.

It had crossed my mind but the wave washer headspace connection had me in a whirlwind. If he has sized his case and not understanding the base to shoulder dimension when setting up the dies that may be the issue, just throwing something out there.

[earl39]

got to remember he is using virgin brass and as such it could be short to start with.

[nso123]

This sounds like it could be a shoulder issue on the brass. OP, do you have a comparator where you can measure the shoulder on your brass?

[sharpshooter]

He doesn't need a comparator...he has the barrel. All he has to do is what I said. I think the gauges are wrong.

[stangfish]

got to remember he is using virgin brass and as such it could be short to start with.

You may be right earl but nowhere does he say virgin. He said new. some people size new brass like myself.


He doesn't need a comparator...he has the barrel. All he has to do is what I said. I think the gauges are wrong.

Hopefully he has a set of dial calipers and knows how to use them...or a depth mic.

[earl39]

You may be right earl but know where does he say virgin. He said new. some people size new brass like myself.


Your right stang but if the brass is short to start with then running it thru your die will not move the shoulder forward to its proper position.

[stangfish]

Your right stang but if the brass is short to start with then running it thru your die will not move the shoulder forward to its proper position.


...and could possibly move the shoulder back if the die is not adjusted properly. I agree.

[thirty06]

If the new brass is short to begin with no amount of sizing will lengthen it.

[davemuzz]

[QUOTE=earl39;224040]Quit your whinning Dave. /QUOTE]

Oh come on Earl…..that's one of my best qualities!!! :) You did send me some snow…I went out hunting this am….I saw the little deer paw tracks so I know they are out there…..but I don't know where they are now. I hate when that happens.

Dave

(Whining about deer now)

[wlleven]

Took barrel to work and tried the go, no go gauges again and everything was fine ....then started taking some measurements. OAL case length, body diameter, rim thickness etc, etc were fine. (basic stuff that really did not pertain to head space, but wanted to check it anyway).

HOWEVER .. the base to shoulder and base to neck were off by .015 or so ....... The die was off according to my measurements based on 6.5 Grendel cartridge specs.

I went and loosened the barrel and then put a new Lapua case in and started to tighten the barrel down, It went ~ 1/4 of a turn more than the go gauge did !

I lightly yet firmly tightened the action with a new case chambered in the barrel, tightened the barrel nut hand tight while holding the action so it did not move, and then tightened her down with slap of a wooden mallet.

The cases now ejects perfectly ..... and yes NOW the GO gauge does not fit, it acts like a NO GO gauge !!!!

Yes, .004 of scotch tape on the case head, and it is a no go !, I think we are good.

Sharpshooter ... You were right ! the gauges were wrong ... IMHO !!

Lesson learned ... If something is not feeling right, don't let it go and don't just trust that it will work, check and recheck.

If I would have let this go just because the gauges told me it was Ok ... who knows what would have happened.

Anybody want two 6.5 Grendel NO GO Gauges of different dimensions .. LOL, LOL, LOL

Thanks for all you input and support guys ...

wll

[stangfish]

Tell me again how you came to the conclusion that it is the gauges that are off? From what I am seeing you head spaced the chamber off of the new unfired unsized cases and then called the gauges wrong. You implied that the cases where off .015 and that the die was bad. I believe everything is going to come together for you but I would like to believe that someone here can help you with how you come to conclusions with regards to head spacing.

I am not trying to belittle you I am trying to help you understand how to go about troubleshooting you issues when working on a gun that has 60,00 psi contained. Your first concern was a case falling out of a chamber by gravity. Next a washer that plays no role in the process was the culprit. Now this. I am more than concerned with your confidence. I like your attitude and tenacity for the work at hand but I believe you need to slow down. Contemplate the task. What certain information means and its impact on the solution.

Good luck and please consider getting an experience mentor to help explain some of the things you are trying to accomplish. Good luck brother and if there is anything you need help with PLEASE ask for more information and explanation. No questions are dumb...but sometimes answers are.

[wlleven]

Tell me again how you came to the conclusion that it is the gauges that are off? From what I am seeing you head spaced the chamber off of the new unfired unsized cases and then called the gauges wrong. You implied that the cases where off .015 and that the die was bad. I believe everything is going to come together for you but I would like to believe that someone here can help you with how you come to conclusions with regards to headspacing.

When I loosened the barrel and then put a new factory Lapua case into the barrel and tightened it down on the receiver, it screwed in about 1/4 more turn than when I had the GO gauge in. Having measured the Go Gauge and finding it about .015 longer than the factory Lapua brass.(1/4 exactly would equate to .0123).

If I would have fired the round and not re adjusted the headspace like I did this am, I would have had way to much head space as the cartridge was not resting where it should.

wll

[stangfish]

That I understood. My biggest concern was how you determined that the case was not the problem but the gage was. I think you are correct in preferring that the case fit the chamber better than .015 loose. Have you compared the dimensions to a Grendel drawing? Did you size the brass prior to trying to use it as a gage? I ask for my own edification as we don't know if your die is a factor in the equation. And finally if you make the decision to not correctly identify the true problem that you "May" not be able to chamber factory ammunition, any brass from a new or different batch and you may not be able to correctly full length size any other brass to fit depending on if the gauge was correct or not..

[wlleven]

That I understood. My biggest concern was how you determined that the case was not the problem but the gage was. I think you are correct in preferring that the case fit the chamber better than .015 loose. Have you compared the dimensions to a Grendel drawing? Did you size the brass prior to trying to use it as a gage? I ask for my own edification as we don't know if your die is a factor in the equation. And finally if you make the decision to not correctly identify the true problem that you "May" not be able to chamber factory ammunition, any brass from a new or different batch and you may not be able to correctly full length size any other brass to fit depending on if the gauge was correct or not..

Stangfish,

You may be very correct and that concerns me. I ordered some Hornady 123gr SST's ammo and it should arrive on Wednesday of next week I believe.

If they do not chamber, than the Lapua brass is to short ...... But I find that hard to believe .... But we will see !

This is a learning adventure for sure. My barrel is a McGowen, and they make good barrels and have a good reputation. I'm betting it is a gauge issue, if the loaded ammo from Hornady is OK, then we have the answer either way !

wll

[sharpshooter]

But yet you didn't pull the barrel and measure the case protrusion? If the cases are short, you maybe headspacing off the end of the bolt. You need to determine what the culprit really is....a short case, a long guage, or even a long chamber. It could be a combo of everything.

[Hotolds442]

How do you know that your Lapua brass isn't sized from the factory to stretch a bit as it's withdrawn from the expander in a sizing die? I would not rely on any manufacturers brass being within SAAMI spec to set a headspace with. With the liability laws the way they are, I very seriously doubt that BOTH of your headspace gauges are bad. Think about it.... You set headspace with the go gauge, and the no-go wouldn't allow the bolt to close. Just because your brass doesn't fit properly doesn't make the headspace bad. I really think you need to reset the headspace to your go-gauge, resize that new brass, stick two pieces of tape on the case head, and see if the bolt closes. If it does, just plan on fireforming that brass. Don't change anything else.

[handirifle]

Wlleven

Where in CA do you live?

I live on the Central Coast, just north of San Luis Obispo, but will be in the Oxnard area for the next few days.

I agree with these guys, condemning your go gauge based on "brass" fit is not the most reliable thing.

First off, make sure the gauges are clearly marked for the cartridge you have, and that the barrel is clearly marked for the same cartridge.
I believe you said 6.5 Grendel?

Look up SAAMI drawings on the case and compare that you your brass, AND gauges. This is one of the reason I am SOOOO against guys preaching on here that tape on a cartridge case can be used as a no go gauge. It is entirely possible your gauges are off, but highly unlikely.

I once ordered a 2" fire hydrant water valve for my hydrant at my house. It was too big, but when I tried it on 2 1/2" pipe it was too small. A call to the company got them checking and they had a whole shipment (hundreds) of them like that. It did not fit any known metric size either. Point is it CAN happen, but you need to make sure. You need to have someone else double check your theory BEFORE ever chambering or firing a live round.

[BillPa]

[QUOTE=handirifle;224479

Look up SAAMI drawings on the case and compare that you your brass, AND gauges. [/QUOTE]

Here they are.
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/6_5%20Grendel.pdf

Bill

[wlleven]

Here they are.
http://www.saami.org/PubResources/CC_Drawings/Rifle/6_5%20Grendel.pdf

Bill

Those are the salami specs I used !

wll