The 26 Nosler

[stomp442]

That chart is pretty flawed as it fails to give any kind of apples to apples comparison. First of all they are using their overly inflatted bc for the ALR and comparing that to standard accu bonds and partitions which are completely different bullet designs. If they were to compare to bullets of similar designs and use an actual bc the numbers would not be so bent in favor of the 26 Nosler. But they are trying to sell the public on their fancy new cartridge so they are going to do what they can to make theirs look better.

[Hotolds442]

Just like back in the day when only gun rags had chronographs. Technology is too far advanced today for a manufacturer to make outlandish claims. Many people have chronographs now, if a manufacturer stretches claims of velocity, it's not too long before they're busted. Same thing holds true with a given bullet's BC. There's software out there that can calculate the BC of a bullet with only the starting velocity, the zero point, and the drop at a given range. Exaggerate too much and you're busted!

[davemuzz]

Just like back in the day when only gun rags had chronographs. Technology is too far advanced today for a manufacturer to make outlandish claims. Many people have chronographs now, if a manufacturer stretches claims of velocity, it's not too long before they're busted. Same thing holds true with a given bullet's BC. There's software out there that can calculate the BC of a bullet with only the starting velocity, the zero point, and the drop at a given range. Exaggerate too much and you're busted!

I would agree with you. But I'm not sure if your saying that Nosler is putting out false information on this new cartridge? Really? Anything is possible.....but I would seriously doubt a company with this recognition in the shooting industry would come out with false information on the introduction of it's first cartridge. Really?.....Really???

Dave

[Hotolds442]

No, what I'm saying is they're not going to toss their reputation by making false velocity or ballistic claims.

[stomp442]

Its been proven on more than one occasion that Nosler does in fact inflate BCs. The last winters issue of the varmint hunter magazine being the latest and most in depth article on the subject. Issue #81 if memory serves me correctly. Simple math reveals that the ALR requires a much lower form factor than even the slickest vld design to achieve the claimed .561 bc. On average Nosler over estimates bc by over 6% and as high as close to 20% in some cases. They even go as far as listing the same bc for ballistic tips and accubonds of the same weight and caliber even though they have different boat tail angles and bearing surface dimensions. Nosler is in a word lazy and by far the worst in the business when it comes to trust worthy ballistics data. No company is perfect but at least the other companies try to do a reasonable ammount of testing.

[davemuzz]

Meh

[stomp442]

Give it a test and see. Shoot a Nosler bullet of your choosing out to at least 600 yards using the advertised bc and see what happens. Ive done it and I know what happens. I even have a pdf copy of the article if you would like to read it for yourself.

[Hotolds442]

http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA554683

this pretty much sums up what Stomp is referring to.

[davemuzz]

That report is 4 years old.

[sha-ul]

I am kinda interested in the 26 Nosler, but it looks like a large action would be mandatory, if not a 110BA action.

[Luke45]

Its been proven on more than one occasion that Nosler does in fact inflate BCs. The last winters issue of the varmint hunter magazine being the latest and most in depth article on the subject. Issue #81 if memory serves me correctly. Simple math reveals that the ALR requires a much lower form factor than even the slickest vld design to achieve the claimed .561 bc. On average Nosler over estimates bc by over 6% and as high as close to 20% in some cases. They even go as far as listing the same bc for ballistic tips and accubonds of the same weight and caliber even though they have different boat tail angles and bearing surface dimensions. Nosler is in a word lazy and by far the worst in the business when it comes to trust worthy ballistics data. No company is perfect but at least the other companies try to do a reasonable ammount of testing.

Yep nosler uses their BC only at highest velocity. If you look at Sierra bullets for example, G1 BC changes with velocity. An example of sierra bullets would be that the say(for a given bullet) that BC=.5 over 3200fps, .486 between 2800-3200, and .445 below 2800. Nosler only uses the high number. so you shot long range and think you BC is a .5, but averaged over 800 yards it is .46. So they are telling the truth, they just leave out the little fact that G1 BC changes with velocity

[stomp442]

Problem is that when they only list the high number its still ungodly high because its pushed as fast as they can get it to go. I called them one time looking for more information on their 25 cal 85 grain ballistic tip as I was wanting to load some in my 250 savage. I was interested in what velocity the BC was tested so that I could see if I could achieve that with my little savage. They told me the bullet was tested using a 25-06 at a velocity of 3400fps out to 100 yards. So in other words I had no hopes of even coming close that with my 250. Nosler really needs to at least start implementing bullet testing at median velocity ranges to better give us an idea of what's actually going on. Because as it is now, anyone shooting that bullet in anything smaller than a 25-06 is only fooling themselves and Nosler is laughing all the way to the bank.

[stomp442]

http://www.dtic.mil/get-tr-doc/pdf?AD=ADA554683

this pretty much sums up what Stomp is referring to.

Yep this is basically the same article that was published in the varmint hunter magazine. It may be four years old but it remains just as true today as it was then as Nosler has changed nothing.

[Luke45]

Wow are you serious? I knew they fudged the numbers a little, but didnt know it was to that extent. After i realised about noslers bogus numbers, i havent bought any of their bullets since. makes me wonder how game animals were wounded or missed due to this? Stomp- Go look at the published BCs for the new accubond long range bullets if you want a good laugh. They are just so unbleivable its almost funny. They probably tested thier bullets at 10000 feet altitube in 100 degrees and necked 50 BMG down to the different bullet diameters to get 5500 fps for ttesting

[stomp442]

Oh I know. I've been calling bs on their numbers ever since the press release came out on those.

Another one that's really bad is the 55gr 6mm ballistic tip. They claim a higher BC for that bullet than the 22 cal ballistic tip of the same weight even though the 22 cal is a longer and smaller diameter bullet. I called them on this as well and they told me the BC is so high because it was tested at a higher velocity than the 22 cal bullet. When I asked them what velocity and cartridge they told me .243 win and 3900fps. Wow. Nothing like making apple and orange comparisons. I've since tested this bullet and its 22 cal counterpart out to 600 yards using a 24" 22-250 loaded with a published max load of Varget and a 24" 243 loaded with a published max load of Varget . The 22-250 gave me a velocity of 3683 and the 243 gave me a velocity of 3633. With both rifles zeroed at 200 yards the 243 shot about 3-4" lower at 600 yards than the 22-250. According to my results I gustimate the BC of the 6mm 55gr ballistic tip having a BC somewhere around .227-.230 a far cry from the published .267

[the Ranger]

makes me wonder how game animals were wounded or missed due to this?

you can hardly blame Nosler for a missed or wounded animal if someone didn't test their load before trying it on game.

[Luke45]

you can hardly blame Nosler for a missed or wounded animal if someone didn't test their load before trying it on game.

Yes very true. It still is very annoying that they embellish their numbers

[the Ranger]

agreed.

[Russell D]

I talked to a couple guys from Nosler at the shot show and the round has been Sammi approved; Iirc I was told by them that is was based of the 404 Jeffrey but since it is Sammi approved it's not considered a wild cartridge.

The round would require you to have it built around a long action and it is most definitely a barrel burner! We ordered a reamer for my work and it came in last week, I am working on getting a 700 magnum action to build one with, once I have it done I will post the results here.

Russell

[sha-ul]

I wonder how much Nitriding might help the barrel burning.