NEW PC10 Owner Extractor Shock & NATO ball

[lbsnake925]

SAVAGE RIFLEMEN ASSISTANCE REQUESTED

I bought a PC10 thinking it to be my all-purpose goto rifle after selling the M1A and shelving the FN. I wanted a chassis that delivered results but "appeared" less militaristic or martial. My end goal is to build a "sleeper", a rifle that looks like crap, but is a dead ringer in the hands of an American Rifleman.

I am second owner of #813045 which had barely been used, still in the box, and was shocked that after shooting 12 rounds of NATO surplus the extractor, ball, and spring were lost in the weeds and my supposedly vaunted PC10 was few steps above a muzzle loader. A little discouraging.

Q#1- Should I, can I expect my savage to be as rugged as the FN, eating up whatever can be found to feed it?

I called Savage, they sent me new parts free of charge. She gasped when I told her I put NATO surplus in pipe, and then the uninformed woman on the phone told me NATO ball was higher pressure than .308. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090705154413AAqrYDu

Q#2- does the dimensions of the .308 vs 7.62 x 51 create the pressures referred to by the Savage rep?

Then I get an Email back from Savage saying the ejector was also at risk to NATO ball ammo. The ejctor seems to be ok, not sure really since I don't have the new extractor.

Q#3- Can I or should I expect my savage to be a battle rifle if required, or is it less than such? A powderpuff, benchrest, safe queen?

I haven't give up hope yet. I have the .14 steel ball coming in the mail as recommended here. What about a new stiffer extractor spring or increasing the tension of the spring?

Thanks to Savage Riflemen who resopond in advance. lb

[jonbearman]

I always thought that the m80 ball was for lightmachine guns.Why do you want to run ammo like this in a hunting rifle.

[stangfish]

Q#1 Does your FN have a 7.62x51 chamber?

Q#2 If you are firing NATO 7.62x51 out of a 308 Saami chamber quite possibly. Some factors that could make the pressures high in your rifle. The brass is often long in the neck dimensions and the projectile is tightly crimped. Sealer is also used.

Q#3 I don't know about powder puff and all that other stuff but if you want to shoot Mill Surplus you might get it chambered for 7.62x51 and buy a spare in 7.62x 39 barrel with a ppc bolthead and mag for it.

[lbsnake925]

I always thought that the m80 ball was for lightmachine guns.Why do you want to run ammo like this in a hunting rifle.

Thanks for the response. I am using NATO rifle ammo, no MG. Recognizing the advantage of match ammo or hand loads, I was aiming for a platform that could take any ammo that could be scrounged, delivering adequate 4MOA results, iron sights, field position with sling, no bench or bidpod. Perhaps my I should have done more homework on what NATO nations were using for bolt guns?

I love the lines and feel of the PC10. I haven't given up yet.

[lbsnake925]

Thanks for the reply.
Q1 .308 Win. DSA-58, I think the bolt design is more robust perhaps.
Q2 Savage is SAAMI .308. Good info thanks.
Q3 Chambered for 7.62 x 51 makes sense and the spare barrel idea is cool.

[44magleo]

The NATO 7.62x51 has a different chamber. It is often larger than the 308 Win Chamber. It also has more free bore. This lets it chamber ammunition made in any NATO country. If any off it is a bit big it can still function in any chamber.
The longer free bore allows the chamber pressure to be a bit higher but not show signs of pressure, like a case stuck in the chamber.
The same applies to the .223 and the 5.56 NATO.
A lot of the reloading manuals now have listings for both.
In a commercial hunting rifle I wouldn't recommend shooting military ammunition. Unless you wanted to get the chamber recut to NATO specs, Then you can shoot anything in it.
Leo

[lbsnake925]

Wow. Great info 44Magleo. A recut chamber sounds pricy. I guess if I'm willing to spend $$$ on glass, I can pay for the re-chamber. We only live once. I'll look into it. Thanks again. lb

[JMGlasgow]

I have shot several different types of NATO 7.62 through my Savage and never had one single problem. German DAG93 shot consistent sub MOA.

Also, I thought more free bore reduced pressure, and jamming into the lands increased pressure.
I also thought NATO ammo had less pressure than .308. That is why I can't shoot my max match loads for the Savage in my match grade M1A as it is too much pressure.

[lbsnake925]

InterestingJMG. Your experience with NATO surplus is what I hope I can massage out my PC10. I am not supper experienced with bolt guns and all the science of bore pressure and such. I have some time with FN's and M1A's. The M1A had some trouble with the cheap tula stuff which seemed a little hot. I added a adjustable gas plug and that seemed to help. My DSA 58 FAL has never missed a beat, ever. I need a bolt gun that gives me the confidence of the FN. A buddy recommended to start with a Savage and I trust him implicitly, but he reloads perfectly, and that may be why he has never had trouble. Thanks for your interest.

[earl39]

7.62x51 ball IS loaded to lower pressure than 308 Winchester. As stated above ball ammo is loaded to pressures that will run in a M14/M1A. The 223/5.56 is where all the debate comes from on pressure.

[pisgah]

In spite of what "everyone knows" (including whatever lady they had answering the phone at Savage that day), 7.62 NATO and .308 are dimensionally identical, and the military stuff is loaded to lower pressures than commercial .308. Your extractor would have gone bye-bye regardless of what ammo you were shooting at the time.

[lbsnake925]

A follow-up. Savage did send a new spring, extractor, and .12 steel ball. I bought the .14 from Fastenal. Savage and Fastenal gave great service and the parts came quickly. I tried to put a .12 steel ball under the spring and the .14 on top of the spring to increase exractor tension. I could not make it happen. The parts were small and difficult to handle and the increased spring tension caused difficulty, I could not get the extractor to slide into place. I finally gave up and put in the spring and the .14 steel ball and the extractor slid into place. I took the rifle and shot 50rounds NATO ball ammo and had no problems. I plan on putting some more range time on my rifle with the weather breaks. Thanks to everyone for their interest and comments.