Just currious

[yobuck]

Then admit that the shot was screwed up, shoot the remainder of the target with the amount of shots you planed on shooting, and measure the entire group, then try to do better on the next target. If you feel the need to display this target, then admit that you screwed up the group, and put it at it full measurement. If your really concerned that your first shot could be off, then why not shoot it on another target, like a sighter target. If your always giving your self an excuse or an out, you will never improve. It is only when you except your failures, and attempt to learn from them that you will ever improve.

i think its very hard for some of us to admit we screwed up. which is why its a good thing there are rules at santioned matches.
male ego no doubt plays a roll in those things. my question to 82 boy would be, (would you consider not taking sighter shots
before shooting at a for record target?) even if you had shot a few hours earlier?

[82boy]

my question to 82 boy would be, (would you consider not taking sighter shots
before shooting at a for record target?) even if you had shot a few hours earlier?

Well actually I shoot very few sighter shots. My normal is I clean the gun between rounds, and I shoot 2 shots to foul the bore, and put a little heat in the barrel, then I go to the record target and shoot my record shots. I can say there has been a couple of times I preloaded for a club match, and did not have enough shots for sighters, and just shot record shots, and I did well. The way I clean the rifle disturbs it very little, and I could got to the record target and not shoot sighters, and put together a good group. When I practice I don't shoot any sighters. Even if there was a time of a couple of hours between strings (Highly unlikely) I would not be afraid to not shoot sighters. If the first shot is off, then I will just chase it.

[82boy]

Just a thought, the term "Called flyer" is an oxymoron, meaning it contradicts itself. If something is "Called" it is predetermined or predicted, for example when you shoot pool or billiards (I am no expert on this.) it is customary that when you shoot the 8 ball, you "Call" or predict where that shot is going. It is also customary to "Call" or predict what will happen when you shoot a "Combo." Another example was when you was a kid preforming stunts, you "Called" out what you was doing or what was going to happen. Now the term "Flyer" as I know it is a shot that unexpectedly goes wild, in an unpredictable way. Now with that said how do you predict something that is unpredictable? I would find the term more acceptable if is was a "Culled Flyer" with Culled meaning it was removed.

Using the "Called Flyer" approach is basically giving your self a mulligan, and all you are doing is cheating your self. If you ever played golf, you will know of a guy that calls a lot of mulligans, and what happens is it detracts from the game. Eventually you will not want to play with this type of person.


Besides that sometimes there is stuff that happen in shooting that is unpredictable, this is why it is always good to shoot with someone else, to see if there are experiencing the same things that you are. (On top of the added safety benefit.) Flyers are not always bad things, as described in Tony Boyer's book, the force them selves to shoot flyers by playing a game called "Hit It." Tony describes the game as being played by two or more shooters, and the object is to chase the other shooters shot, in an attempt to shoot small groups. They will start out with one shooter shooting the first shot, then the next shooter will try to put there shot on top of the other shooters shot, and it will go back and forth or down the line until five shots are shot. Tony said at first they shot big groups but after doing this for sometime they was able to shoot shots in the .2's and .1 with several shooters.

I will end with this a Flyer is an opportunity to make your self a better shooter. What you do with it, is up to you.

[sharpshooter]

A shooter is only good as his worst shot.

[CharlieNC]

Well the term flyer is not unique to shooting, and it is widely referred to as an outlier in statistics. The point is it falls outside the normal distribution of the other data points, with the key feature being there is a lot of information and learning associated with that point (shot) that enables one to learn what is causing the problem (or depending on what you are doing, the outlier may be closer to the desirable result and is a good thing). Clearly if I am developing a load and 9 out of 10 shots behave well, and I have a gas attack and know I pulled the bad shot, then I will ignore that shot when characterizing the load; however, I did learn not to put too much Texas Pete on my eggs at breakfast as it can lead to bad shots! So if/when to declare a flyer depends on how the information is to be used to make decisions now, and how to apply it to various future situations.

[82boy]

A shooter is only good as his worst shot.

Simple, but very well said.

[yobuck]

Well the term flyer is not unique to shooting, and it is widely referred to as an outlier in statistics. The point is it falls outside the normal distribution of the other data points, with the key feature being there is a lot of information and learning associated with that point (shot) that enables one to learn what is causing the problem (or depending on what you are doing, the outlier may be closer to the desirable result and is a good thing). Clearly if I am developing a load and 9 out of 10 shots behave well, and I have a gas attack and know I pulled the bad shot, then I will ignore that shot when characterizing the load; however, I did learn not to put too much Texas Pete on my eggs at breakfast as it can lead to bad shots! So if/when to declare a flyer depends on how the information is to be used to make decisions now, and how to apply it to various future situations.

were you ever a politition? if not you may well have missed your calling lol.

[CharlieNC]

I deplore politicians but I can hold my own in most debates (with a touch of BS as necessary). My career did involve a lot of "ciffering" so I do know my way with numbers!

[Hammer]

.

A "called flyer" is when you tell your shooting partner to make sure he watches the next bull prairie dog that you're getting ready to smack with your 30/378 Weatherby at 50 yards.

.

[82boy]

.

A "called flyer" is when you tell your shooting partner to make sure he watches the next bull prairie dog that you're getting ready to smack with your 30/378 Weatherby at 50 yards.

.

This is my vote for best response.
Where have you been?
Good to see you back.

[Werewolf]

When I make a bad shot I usually just say "I pulled that one" or something to that effect. After I am through cursing. I guess a "called flyer"s just a way to try and make it sound better.
I agree somewhat with 82boy, you gotta admit you flubbed it and try to do better next time. However as another poster stated, if you are testing ammo you only count the shots you feel were right and disregard the ones you know you screwed up. The hard part is being honest enough with yourself to admit it was you and not the ammo.

[bflee]

It's kind of like a "mulligan" in golf. It happens when you shoot alone or with a few friends. They don't exist in pro golf or pro shooting.