How do you guys do it?

[lomfs24]

What I mean by that is it seems that as I get deeper into precision shooting that super small variations can have a large impact. Such as changing primers, changing bullets, and powder or even changing brass. Then you throw in the aspect of bullet seating.

There are countless combinations when it comes to reloading. Is there a place where you can buy smaller amounts of components. For instance, 10 or 20 of a certain type of bullet or primer? Powder in smaller portions than a pound? Just so I don't end up with 90 bullets of a certain type sitting on my shelf because I don't like them.

[trappst]

Bullets can be had here: http://www.bulletsamples.com/

Hodgdon made small packs of similar burn rate powders at one time....haven't seen those for a while though.

Primers - 100 at a time is about as small as your gonna get

What you need to ask yourself while developing loads is this: Can you really make the groups any smaller? Are you, your equipment and the load capable of shrinking group size?

You'll find that instead of constantly chasing that "magic" load/combination, you'd be better off settling on a good one and shooting LOTS of it.

[lomfs24]

Thanks for the link to sample bullets. I will be ordering some bullets from them. Primers are not such a big deal right now, since I am only shooting what I can get a hold of anyway. Smaller portions of powder would be great but I think I have found a pretty good powder now.

But for instance. I bought my .308 and have moved one click at a time from 155 gr bullets to 180 gr. And the heavier the bullets, the better my rifle likes them. So logically, the next step is to see if the 190's work well. If I could have bought is 10 or 20 round packs I could have saved myself a lot of money and headache. And my barrel would be 400 rounds newer.

I understand not chasing the "magic load" but you can't arbitrarily pick a load and dogmatically stick to it thinking that some day you will be able to shoot it well. If you are not happy with the results you are getting you gotta change something.

[trappst]

I understand not chasing the "magic load" but you can't arbitrarily pick a load and dogmatically stick to it thinking that some day you will be able to shoot it well. If you are not happy with the results you are getting you gotta change something.

You are correct...guess what I'm trying to say is if your only trying to shrink groups a small amount you may be wasting your time. Like squeezing that group from .35" to .30". Obviously, if you're not happy with a load don't stick with it.

I pursued the elusive bughole for quite a while and spent a butt load of money...it was fun but life changed and I just don't have the time anymore. Now, my loads are almost all for hunting. My goal now is to find an accurate, high performance (for that chamber) load. Become familiar with that load and it's ballistics and have fun!!!! For my rifles, if a load won't do under .5" it's gonna change. Consistent three shot groups in the .3-.4" area makes me happy. ;D

[lomfs24]

I am on the other side of the fence now. ;D I used to not have time to do all that and now I do have the time and I am chasing the bug hole. Well, not really chasing the bug hole but trying to get consistent small groups. I will probably never get a bug hole with a stock savage, but I can get close. The 155 gr bullets I was shooting a 3" group at 100 yrds. I though it was primers, I thought it was powder it had to be everything except the Sierra Palma Match grade bullets. But after 200 rounds of trying everything possible, I bumped up to the 168 and groups closed to .5 but I had to shoot a whole box of 100 before bumping up to 180's. Now, if I don't have a gallon of coffee prior to going to the range I can shoot a clover leaf at 100 yrds. Now, I want to try 190's to see if it get's tighter but don't want to buy a whole box of 100 in case they start to open up again.

[okie2]

168 Nosler ballistic tip and 39.5 grains of IMR 3031 2.800 OAL
If your rifle is not accurate with this go see a gunsmith.

[lomfs24]

Okie2,
recipe saved for future reference. Thanks.

[Budweiser360]

I'm not sure what your purpose is for this rifle, but if you plan on doing any competitive shooting with it (F-class etc..) and you want to use the 190's, you won't get the velocity needed out of a .308 case to get the benefit of the higher BC.

With your comments on how many variables there can be in a load, how to you expect to find the magic load with 10 sample bullets? Any bullet could be made to make good groups, assuming you have the barrel for it, you just need to find the right combination. Use what works, there are a TON of different .308 loads available and you should work with those instead of taking your time to experiment with your own thing. Then you won't have 10 different powders, 10 different bullets etc... That being said, you will still likely have to tweak it to your rifle, but you will have a good starting point.

[BrentWin]

I really don't understand the 10 packs of bullets. I can't see how you can evaluate a bullet/powder combo with less than 50 bullets and that would be a bare minimum.

I also don't understand asking guys for their "magic" loads. There are just to many variables to make this practical. What works in one rifle may or may not work in another. To load up 10 of someones pet load and then decide whether that bullet/powder combo is right for your rifle is a complete waste. A combo that you discard may very well just be a 1/2gr. away from shooting bug holes.

First decide which bullet you want to try, based on what you are going to do with it, IE, target shooting or hunting.

Then ask around for what powder others have been using for this round/bullet combo. You will usually find a certain powder being recommended. If they provide a specific load that's fine, but you need to test a full range of loads.

So now you have your bullets and powder. Check a couple of loading data manuals and get the max load for your combo. Load 5 each of max load, then max -.5gr., max - 1gr., max -1.5gr. etc. until you have loaded 50 rounds. I know that it is recommended to start at minimum load, but this will start you at a level that should be safe in any rifle.

Now take your rifle to the range and set up a good rest. You will want to fire 5 rounds of whatever leftover ammo you have to get a little heat in the barrel and to foul the barrel if it has just been cleaned so that you are firing all groups apples to apples.

Let the barrel cool a couple of minutes and then fire 5 rounds of your lightest load. Let the barrel cool five minutes and fire your next fives loads. Keep the fire five, cool five as you work up the ladder. Keep a look out for signs of over pressure. If you don't know how to recognize these signs, take an experienced reloader with you, or at least, search this and other sights for discussions of over pressure signs.

If you start seeing over pressure indications, stop right there and pull the bullets and dump the powder of all the loads hotter than that when you get home.

Now look at your target. You should see a group, or normally 2 groups that shot better than the others. These are the nodes, or sweet spots that we are going to work with.

Lets say that in your rifle the Max for XXXX powder is 60 grs. and you see nodes at 55 and 57.5 grs. Our next round of loads are going to be loaded at 54.6, 54.8, 55.0, 55.2 and 55.4 to test the lower node and 56.6, 57.0, 57.5, 58.0 and 58.5.

Somewhere in these 10 groups there should be YOUR magic loads. For small capacity rounds, you may choose to use .2 gr. increments.

If you are a competition shooter, or are very serious about maximum accuracy, this is just the start. From there you will want to play with seating depth, primers and any Voodoo charms that you might come across.

Everybody knows that 308 loads using 44 grs. of Varget and a 168 gr. SMK shoots better if loaded during the full moon.

There are other methods for testing loads, but this one seems to be most practical, in my opinion, for the average shooter. Just remember, always keep an eye out for pressure signs

[wbm]

I also don't understand asking guys for their "magic" loads. There are just to many variables to make this practical.

I agree somewhat, however their are several I have found over the years that seem to do quite well in a variety of rifles chambered in the same caliber. The edition of Sierra's reloading manual that uses mostly Savage rifles for their data is uncanny for "magic loads in my Savage rifles." So far, in 30-06, 7mm Magnum, and 300WSM I have found that their accuracy loads are more often than not the most accurate in my Savage rifles also. One magic load that stands out in my mind is a .243 load using a 75g bullet and H4350 powder...the load has shot extremely well in every .243 I have ever used it in from Savage and Remington to Ruger.

[rjtfroggy]

I agree with the others to find a magic pill in 10 shots I do not believe it is going to happen just way to many variables. Besides that would take the fun out of it.

[red_zr24x4]

Posted by: wbm

The edition of Sierra's reloading manual that uses mostly Savage rifles for their data is uncanny

which sierra manual # is this please, you can never have enough manuals, and it sounds like a good one to have

[wbm]

Posted by: wbm
The edition of Sierra's reloading manual that uses mostly Savage rifles for their data is uncanny
which sierra manual # is this please, you can never have enough manuals, and it sounds like a good one to have


Edition V

[AR10Tfan]

Well in the constant never ending search for better accuracy, what I generally do is establish a go to load for my rifle [like 69gn smk and 24.7 gn Varget and seated to lands] gets me x-rings at 600 yds in f-class, then I'll but 100 rnd box of another bullet I think looks promising and do some load/accuracy work with it, 100 rnds gives me enough to do different powder,primer and seating depth test to see if it is promising ::)

[Tightgroups]

I also agree that there's no magic load for all rifles, but there are some that might be a good place to start your load development. And one for the 308 is, in my opinion, the 168g SMK over 44.5g of varget, CCI primers, with a 2.800 case OAL, to start. This is the same load used by Federal in there 168g Gold Metal Match round, at least it was several years ago. And my reloads with 44.5g shoots in the .2 and .3 for 5 @ 100, from my H-S Precision HTR.
From a 24" cut rifling, 1 in 12" Barrel, FF Lapua brass, neck sized, I get.
44.0g Varget = 2670 fps
44.5g Varget = 2710 fps.
Mike.

[Uncle Jack]

Perhaps now, lomfs24, you are beginning to understand why reloaders are a peculiar breed.

It is simple questions like yours that causes us to walk with a halting gait, have facial twitches and violent involuntary body movements. The search for reason and consistency in this "Black Art" brings on Bipolar Disorder type mood swings usually ending with deep depression after brief periods of unparalleled euphoria.

Any attempt to explained or rationalized our actions and methods usually ends with frustration, confusion, endless discussion and debate, followed by total contridiction.

Do yourself a big favor. Unless you are willing to be condemned to a lifetime of insecurity, self-doubt, and agonizing reappraisal of your very being, pick out a load that duplicates Federal Match ammunition, load up a carload of it to SAAMI specs and just go shoot!

I have to go now. It's time for my 0500 Tequila and OJ and I have to go out and beat the dog.

uj

[1Shot]

Any attempt to explained or rationalized our actions and methods usually ends with frustration, confusion, endless discussion and debate, followed by total contridiction.



...LOL..I just pick a bullet that I want to use for the intended purpose & then I go to makeing it shoot holes.. ;)

[lomfs24]

BrentWin, thanks for that long comment. That is similar to how I have been working my loads up. Again, I understand that there is no "magic load" for any rifle. And I also understand that I am not going to find my "magic load" with 10 bullets. But what I was trying to get at was if 180 grain works well and I could get 10 190 gr bullets that shot even better I would then buy a box of 100 190 grainers and start working up a load. But if I get 10 190 grainers and they shoot all over the place then I would scrap them and stick with 180 grainers.

I do appreciate all the comments so far. On a side note, I have shot the .308 barrel until I was bored with it, I did what I wanted to do. So with the magic of Savage and the notorious barrel nut I have now changed the rifle to a 260 Rem. I wish I could have gotten a 6.5x47 Laupa but I am extremely happy with the 260 Rem. And it's a lot more fun working up a load for it cause even though the 308 is not bad to shoot the 260 Rem is a downright pleasure to shoot.

[lomfs24]

Perhaps now, lomfs24, you are beginning to understand why reloaders are a peculiar breed.

It is simple questions like yours that causes us to walk with a halting gait, have facial twitches and violent involuntary body movements. The search for reason and consistency in this "Black Art" brings on Bipolar Disorder type mood swings usually ending with deep depression after brief periods of unparalleled euphoria.

Any attempt to explained or rationalized our actions and methods usually ends with frustration, confusion, endless discussion and debate, followed by total contridiction.

Do yourself a big favor. Unless you are willing to be condemned to a lifetime of insecurity, self-doubt, and agonizing reappraisal of your very being, pick out a load that duplicates Federal Match ammunition, load up a carload of it to SAAMI specs and just go shoot!

I have to go now. It's time for my 0500 Tequila and OJ and I have to go out and beat the dog.

uj


LOL... I knew there was a reason why miss Montana so much. O' Dark thirty Tequila and OJ, beating the dog and rambling monologues. If I ever make it back up that way I am going to have to look you up.