Opinions Solicited Loading for .223 Rem.

[Silvercrow1]

I am a new, greenhorn, etc. reloader. I have a buddy tutoring me but being significantly younger than me, and having two kids and a third on the way, he;s up to him eyeballs in other things.

So we sat down the other night and started some load development. I have two pounds each of Varget and Winchester 748. I'm starting with the 748 basically because its ball powder and meters well for my inexperienced paws.

Questions are: does anyone else use this for .223 Rem. cartridges and how do you like it?

I've been studying the Sierra and Speer manuals, and also the One Caliber One Book , book. All of them list 748 data for reloading .223 Rem., however, Speer tells me that a "magnum" primer is to be used for 748, over all weights listed. I read ball powder is harder to ignite than flake, so I get it. But why do the other manuals not say this? Is Speer extra careful or meticulous? Finally, I purchased 1000 Remington 7 1/2 BR primers; will these have enough "juice" to get the 748 churning and burning?

Thanks to all! Brian

If anyone is interested, the load(s) for development are as follows> Hornady .224 55 Gr. Softpoint ahead of Winchester 748: starting at 23.8 Gr. and working up by .2 Gr. and .1 Gr. to 26.7. The 26.7 is hot by my buddy said it will be OK (?). I'm very new and very conservative. Oh, and using once fired Federal brass, cleaned, sized and trimmed.

Shooting an early 90s 110, 26" heavy barrel in excellent shape.

[WuzYoungOnceToo]

I think Speer had a blanket rule about using magnum primers with all ball powders, no matter what...which ignores multiple factors (like case capacity, for instance) that determine whether a magnum primer is really needed. I use BL-C(2), also a ball poweder, in my range plinking .223 loads with regular CCI 400s and have never had any problems with irregular/unreliable ignition.

[82boy]

Questions are: does anyone else use this for quarter bore cartridges and how do you like it?

Let me start by saying your post is very confusing, it is hard to tall what your asking. First off you say your loading for a 223, then you talk about quarter bore cartridges. A quarter bore cartridge is something that is 25 caliber. So are you shooting some kind of 223 wildcat like a 25/223? Or are you asking that the powder you have if others use it in quarter bore cartridges, like a 25/06, or a 250 savage or something else? Considering your talking about 55 gr bullets I would say your not loading a 25 cal.

Both Varget and 748 are very popular powders, and can be used in a large variety of cartridges, including the 223 Remington. Nothing wrong with them powders, but if your shooting 55 gr bullets in a 223 you may want to look at faster powders. Yes ball powders are harder to light, and yes the speer manual is the only one that will make mention of this. about the best thing to do is try them both. Many consider a rem 7 1/2 primer to be a magnum primer, it does have a large flam pattern, but it is on the ragged edge of doing so. A small primer is good for 1 and 1/2 inch's of case capacity, so when dealing with larger cases such at 6 dasher, or 6x47 Lapua the use of a cci magnum primer is essential. The Remington 7 1/2 primer should be fine for use in a 223 Remington.

Stay within the guidelines of your loading manual, and you will be fine. Most loading manuals are very conservative on loading data, but don't start at the top or max data, and work your way up, paying attention to pressure sighs. Pressure signs to watch for are a sticky or hard to open bolt after firing, flattened primers, cratered primers, split necks, and so forth. DO NOT USE LOADING DATA OFF OF THE INTERNET! Nor would I seek advise off of the internet on loading. The component company's all have wonderful teck support, and are more than willing to help you out.

[Silvercrow1]

Let me start by saying your post is very confusing, it is hard to tall what your asking. First off you say your loading for a 223, then you talk about quarter bore cartridges. A quarter bore cartridge is something that is 25 caliber. So are you shooting some kind of 223 wildcat like a 25/223? Or are you asking that the powder you have if others use it in quarter bore cartridges, like a 25/06, or a 250 savage or something else? Considering your talking about 55 gr bullets I would say your not loading a 25 cal.

.

Hey 82- Thanks for you input! I mis-spoke when I said quarter- bore. It is a .223 Rem. I am loading. My buddy has a 25/06 and was talking "quarter bore" and somehow it got stuck in my head. Apologies to all for the confusion. I edited my original post to remove this error.

WUZONCEYOUNGTOO-
"I think Speer had a blanket rule about using magnum primers with all ball powders, no matter what...which ignores multiple factors (like case capacity, for instance) that determine whether a magnum primer is really needed. I use BL-C(2), also a ball poweder, in my range plinking .223 loads with regular CCI 400s and have never had any problems with irregular/unreliable ignition."

Hiya WUZONCE-I kinda figured that, but as I said I'm brand new to this and don't want to take anything for granted.
Thanks!

Brian

[dcloco]

223 responds rather favorably with a number of differenct powders available.

Ball powder, of any flavor, is nothing short of sublime - easy to meter and spot on through just about every powder measurer.

What twist rate is your barrel? It might be a 1:9 which will allow you to use up to a 77 gr HPBT.

My preference for powders (not in any order - pick the powder for the bullet) - H4895, Ramshot TAC, Accurate 2460, & Benchmark.

There IS a difference between magnum and standard primers - magnum primers do light a little bit hotter. Also, most, but not all, magnum primers have a thicker cup - so there are side benefits as well.

[Silvercrow1]

223 responds rather favorably with a number of differenct powders available.

Ball powder, of any flavor, is nothing short of sublime - easy to meter and spot on through just about every powder measurer.

What twist rate is your barrel? It might be a 1:9 which will allow you to use up to a 77 gr HPBT.

My preference for powders (not in any order - pick the powder for the bullet) - H4895, Ramshot TAC, Accurate 2460, & Benchmark.

There IS a difference between magnum and standard primers - magnum primers do light a little bit hotter. Also, most, but not all, magnum primers have a thicker cup - so there are side benefits as well.

Hi dcloco- My barrel is a 1:12. From some research I did and some PMs from forum members here, my barrel / gun, vintage early 90s, has a 1:12 twist and a long throat. One of our members said that the long throat usually equates to poorer accuracy, but in HIS similar gun, the accuracy was outstanding. SO FAR my gun is performing VERY well with the "stock" / OEM barrel.

Using factory loads the Hornady v-max 55 gr. that measure av. 2.224 COAL) and (believe this or not) American Eagle 50 gr. "Tipped" (varmint tipped) that measure out in the 2.19 COAL range. I'm very happy with the half MOA and less I'm getting at 100 yards.
I had one group measure .292(using the measure edge to edge and subtract .224") but the rest were high .3 / low .4 range.

Thanks- Brian

[MacDR]

There is a reprint of a study of LRP's from Precision Shooting on the riflemansjournal.blogspot.ca. I tried to paste the link but no luck. It is the best illustration of how primer choice can make significant changes to peak pressures that I have read.

My 223 powders for the 55 grain are in order of preference:

IMR 8208
Varget
CFE223
H335
Reloder 10
Benchmark


I have not tried W748, IMR3031 or IMR4320 although I have them. While BL-C(2) gave good results in heavier bullets I wasn't happy with results in the lighter ones. I check COAL using a comparator and haven't seen any changes in performance with changes in COAL for the 55 grain Hornady SP.

[Silvercrow1]

There is a reprint of a study of LRP's from Precision Shooting on the riflemansjournal.blogspot.ca. I tried to paste the link but no luck. It is the best illustration of how primer choice can make significant changes to peak pressures that I have read.

My 223 powders for the 55 grain are in order of preference:

IMR 8208
Varget
CFE223
H335
Reloder 10
Benchmark


I have not tried W748, IMR3031 or IMR4320 although I have them. While BL-C(2) gave good results in heavier bullets I wasn't happy with results in the lighter ones. I check COAL using a comparator and haven't seen any changes in performance with changes in COAL for the 55 grain Hornady SP.

Thanks MAC! I'll look that up. I'm going to post the results of my load testing in a day or two; very good so far but nothing to "knock my socks off" LOL. Still, I realize that improvements can be made in many aspects of reloading (and life). I get SO enthused when I can learn something new that's challenging and rewarding; exercising my brain. And after my accident and recovery I've found that these things I enjoy are also beneficial in a multidimensional way.

WIFE: (Looking at credit card invoice) "Brian, really....more powder..!?" ME: "It's like medication and physical therapy, love! AND YOU are helping me to facilitate it! This all makes me realize I've married the RIGHT woman..."
(And seriously...I HAVE! <3

Brian

[psharon97]

I also shoot the hornady 55g V-Max. The load that I shoot is 21.5g IMR 4198. As other members have said, always start low and work your way. One of the many lessons I've learned over the years is this: often, the most precise and consistent load isn't the fastest, nor does it use the top of the loading data scale. Once you find a good load, stick with it.

[oldbrass]

I load H335 (also a ball powder) in my .223 with standard CCI 400 primers. I use W760 (also a ball powder) in 30-06 and 7mm-08. That said I have never had an issue and I`ve done a lot of reloading

[MacDR]

http://riflemansjournal.blogspot.ca/2009/06/primers-large-rifle-primer-study.html

Here is the link regarding primers. I realize they compared large rifle in 30-06 but, if anything, I would expect more pronounced differences in smaller cases like the .223. This is also mentioned in the article.

[82boy]

My preferred powder for 52-55 gr bullet's is VV N133.
My next choice is Accurate 2015
After that would be Aliant Reloader 10x.


The cover all powder is 4895

Watch out on 8208. There is two forms of it and they share nothing in common. The original is IMR 8208 pull down powder, this powder was sold by IMR and it was salvaged from military 223 tracer rounds. This powder is held as one of the greatest powders by some Benchrest shooters. It is not currently offered, but there is a few shops still selling it.

Then there is IMR 8208 XBR, this powder is what is currently sold by IMR/Hodgdon. It was a project sponsored by Lou Murdica in an attempt to mimic the old pull down powder mentioned above. The powder turned out good, but it is in no way shape or form the same as the old pull down powder. They are 2 entirely different burn rates. XBR is close to burn rate to Varget, where the pull down was close to 4198 in burn rate. If you mix the data up, or the powders you can get into trouble very easy.
This is why I never call the new powder 8208, most people know it as XBR. Most people when they state 8208 they are refereeing to the older pull down powder. Just an FYI

[Silvercrow1]

Hey Thanks You Guys! Appreciate the info. and wisdom! I'm hoping as I research, and listen to your advice, I'll be able to get some more powders for loading. As I am only loading one caliber right now, I'm starting slow.

THANKS for the advice about the best combos not always being the fastest burning or highest velocity. I journaled my data from my first round of load development using 748. I'm gonna do a post with pics etc. Monday. VERY interesting, to me. Little tweaks here and there can really cause significant results!

All this is really keeping me on my toes, interested and excited.

Brian