Problem with new rifle build....

[pappy83]

That was going to be my next question have you put rifle in the HS LRP stock and tried. I had a manners stock and the aluminum bedding block HS shot better until manners was bedded. I have found that CBI Barrels need more then 40rds to be broke in so maybe your McGowan is the same in this instance. I almost gave up on a 223 barrel that would not shoot 55 and 62's for anything it was 1-9 twist, tried 77smk for fun and what do you know its one the most accurate 223 rifles I have been around it went from MOA to .2's but will only shoot 77's. I have tried the manners mini chassis also on a Remington it shot no better then the LTR stock the rifle came out of.

[Onewolf]

I have swapped the stocks and barreled actions but I have not had a chance to try shooting them yet. It probably won't be until Saturday until I can get to the range.

I notice that those Berger 130 VLD bullets at thirdgeneration are 26503 hunting bullets. When I asked previously about using the VLD hunting bullets instead of VLD match bullets I was told that I should stick with VLD match bullets because the hunting bullets have thinner jackets and are more prone to come apart when shot in the hot chamber/barrel of a match rifle.

I have avoided bedding the action in the Manners stock because I have never done it before and I would prefer not risk killing a $600 stock and a $500 (hard to find) action while I learn the ins/outs of bedding an action.

[earl39]

the hunting bullets are the original bullets. The match bullets are the new design that has a thicker jacket. This was done because a few shooters had a problem with the bullets coming apart in flight but for the most part they were pushing them as hard as their equipment would let them. You can check with Berger but i would suspect that with a straight 260, unless your have a really rough barrel, you will not have any problem with them coming apart. I shoot 123 Lapua"s in mine over a load of rl-19 and it shoots just fine. Also have a load worked up with 130 sgk's over IMR7383 surplus powder that shoots less than 1 moa.

[FW Conch]

Putting the LRP barreled action into the Manners stock is a great idea. Install it just like you did the new barreled action, and check it out. I'm not yet convinced you understand what stangfish is trying to get across to you about the action seating onto the stock. When it is "right", you can feel it when you set the barreled action before you even start to install the screws. With the action threads and the screw threads good and clean and everything lined up, when the screws are turned in, they should both make contact with the pillars, and then " reach their torque" 1/8th to 1/4 turn from contact with the pillars. "No slow and gradual tightening as the screws are turned in". This is "the " indication of a well bedded stock. Your rifle is not that far off. I feel your solution is something shuttle. Hope this helps :) ......Jim

[Onewolf]

The LRP barreled action does not quite free float in the Manners stock but I'm not sure how much difference that will make because the LRP didn't free float in the Stocky's laminated stock I tried, but it still shot 1/2-3/4 MOA.

The McGowen barreled action (Shilen #7LV contour) free floats nicely in the HS Precision/LRP stock.

I understand the theory that the action screws should not tighten gradually since the action should be resting/bedded on the pillars.

I measured the twist on the McGowen barrel using the cleaning rod/patch method and came up with approx 8.25 (which may actually be 8.0).

McGowen shipped the muzzle thread cap (ver 2.0) today, it will be interesting to finally shoot without the muzzle brake.

My order of 1000 Scenar 139s from Powder Valley was delivered today. Hopefully the McGowen barrel will like them. I know the LRP will love these bullets, but then the LRP has loved everything I have shot with it (Amax 140s, Scenar 139s, SMK 142s, SMK 140s, Berger VLD 140s, Berger VLD 130s, Barnes MB 140s). I also have 1000 Hornady 140 Match boat tails coming in later this week.

As I noted before, I will try the Berger 130VLDs in the McGowen barrel this weekend to see how they do (after I try the barrel/stock swap test with SMK 142s).

http://www.onewolf.org/Files/P9170479_small.jpg

[Apache]

Now that's what I call a pot of gold!!!!!

[missed]

Ohhhhhh......

[Onewolf]

Coincidentally last night I got an 'in-stock' notification from NatchezSS.com that they got a shipment Hornady 140 A-MAX bullets. I had been waiting for 6 months for A-Max 140s so right after I order 2000 'other' 6.5mm bullets, the A-maxes are available. Nice.

[Onewolf]

I finally got the thread cap for the McGowen barrel (Third time is a charm. :) ). I am wondering if bipod bounce because of the top ported muzzle brake may be contributing to some of my accuracy woes with the new barrel. I will try to find out this weekend.

I also received the order of 1000 Hornady A-Max 140s. With these and the 1000 Lapua Scenar 139s (and the remaining 400 SMK 142s) I should be all set for 6.5mm bullets for the next year. Hoooray!

http://www.onewolf.org/Files/P9200482.jpg

http://www.onewolf.org/Files/P9200484.jpg

[JCalhoun]

44gr of H-4350 is too stout for the .260 Rem. 42gr is a good accuracy spot and about as safe as you should try pushing them.

[Wildboarem]

Hold the phone. First 44 gr of h4350 isn't too stout. Maybe in one barrel but not mine or others. I run 44.2 h4350 and 43.5 rl-17. Anyhow, I would try working your load up using Erik Cortinas' method. He is got the trophies and championships to back up his methods. You can find his thread over at accurate shooter.com. It has become apparent to me that seating depth is the most critical element once you find your node.

[BoilerUP]

44gr of H-4350 is too stout for the .260 Rem. 42gr is a good accuracy spot and about as safe as you should try pushing them.

I would agree that 44gr H4350 is pretty warm for 140s, especially with Lapua brass...but it seems many folks find good, perfectly safe high node with 139-142s between 43-43.5gr.


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[Dennis]

It has become apparent to me that seating depth is the most critical element once you find your node.

As per Erik's advice to me and the above, try loads adjusting your seating depth .003 per string. I listened to him and it made a big difference in my groups.

Dennis

[Onewolf]

With my LRP 260 I found that the SMK 142 and 42.8gr H-4350 provides the best performance. With the A-Max 140 it was 43.0gr of H-4350 that provided the best performance.

[Onewolf]

I made it out to the range today to do some testing. I know that I should only change one variable at a time, but for today I swapped the stocks (LRP got the new Manners T5 stock, McGowen got the LRP HS Precision stock. I also removed the muzzle brake from the McGowen barrel and installed the thread cap that arrived yesterday.

My test of the LRP action in the Manners stock showed that it shot ok. Note that the Savage bull barrel on the LRP does not free float at all in the Manners stock. I shot three 5 shot groups at 100 yards and all three groups were in the 0.6"-0.7" range. I was shooting almost directly into the sun so the glare was challenging.

http://www.onewolf.org/Files/P9210495.jpg

Next I did four powder load tests using RL-17 and the new McGowen barrel in the HS Precision stock. I think it shot noticeably better than before, but since I changed two variables (stock and muzzle brake) (and I knew this was a bad idea) so I don't know which change helped.

http://www.onewolf.org/Files/P9200486.jpg

First I shot SMK 142s because that's what I had been shooting previously. The groups are better than the SMK142 groups I shot before, but still not very good.

http://www.onewolf.org/Files/P9210497.jpg

Next I shot the Scenar 139s. This resulted in an interesting group pattern. Each group had two shots touching and one shot in the weeds. Could this be a coincidence or a clue?

http://www.onewolf.org/Files/P9210499.jpg

Next I shot the Berger VLD 130s. My calculations indicate that the VLDs were set 0.015 off the lands. The rifle hated these rounds.

http://www.onewolf.org/Files/P9210501.jpg

Finally, I shot the A-MAX 140s. This test shows some promise. I think I will pursue more testing with the A-MAX 140s to see how they group at 300m and if they show decent results at 300m I will refine the powder load and seating depth.

http://www.onewolf.org/Files/P9210503.jpg

Thanks for all the help and advice so far. I really appreciate it.

[BoilerUP]

You might try a higher charge of RL17 with all bullets, up to mid-43gr range with the 139-142s and up to mid-44s with RL17. With that little powder, charge density is pretty low.

43.5gr RL17 with the 130gr VLD shot VERY well in my 26" Criterion.

[Onewolf]

I did some work on the Manners stock last night to free float the tang. I also noticed that the rear pillar was not tight and it could rotate so I fixed that.

This morning I did a powder load test with RL-17 and A-Max 140 bullets set to 2.865" COL. As advised here yesterday I took the powder charge up to heavier loads than yesterday.

The results are very promising although I am somewhat surprised at the velocities I am seeing. I guess maybe RL-17 does really give you 100+ FPS advantage over H4350.

Test performed at 200 meters

Load Avg Speed Group size
40.5 2798 1 bullet was off paper?
40.8 2808 1 bullet was off paper?
41.1 2838 1.386"
41.4 2849 1.149"
41.7 2849 2.824"
42.0 2873 2.115"
42.3 2901 1.381"
42.6 2918 1.651"
42.9 2937 1.178"
43.2 2977 3.161"

My analysis of this data concludes that there may be a node around 41.1 to 41.4 and there is almost certainly a node between 42.3 and 42.9. Does that analysis seem reasonable?

I plan to perform the next load test to explore/refine those two potential accuracy nodes:

41.0, 41.2, 41.4, 41.6

42.2, 42.4, 42.6, 42.8, 43.0

The fact that the rifle was able to shoot numerous groups under well 1 MOA without refining the powder load or bullet seating makes me feel much better.

Again, thanks for all the help/advice.

http://www.onewolf.org/Files/P9220508.jpg

http://www.onewolf.org/Files/P9220511.jpg

http://www.onewolf.org/Files/P9220512.jpg

[BoilerUP]

42.3gr looks like OCW as 42.0, 42.3 and 42.6 all have similar POI.

I'd run a seating depth test at that charge weight to find your most accurate OAL, then load up a BUNCH and choot'em.

[Wildboarem]

Your velocity is about inline with where my barrels is. I found nodes around velocity (2950-2975 w/140gr) regardless of powder. I hit these speeds without pressure. Fast barrel, it's always fun to have a fast one imho.
I see a node around 42.3-42.6. I would work up around 42.5 and do a seating depth test, +/- .003. You'll be at .5 moa in no time. Then chootem like boiler said.

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