My scope base is canted!! Long post!

[JeepsAndGuns]

This is my first post here and I believe I have found the place I am looking for. I ended up finding this place when I did a google search on sharp shooters supply. I have spent some time searching this site and have answered one of my main questions I have had. (what exactly is the "time and true" that SSS lists)

I come here because I have a interesting problem and I am wanting a expert to fix it. I have a savage that the holes for the scope base are factory drilled wrong. The scope base cants to the right. The scope base is a farrel steel base purchased from SSS. When I level the action with a small bubble level, I can move the level to the scope base and the bubble is touching the line. I have a cheap level finder and I placed it on the base and the needle hovers at right between 1 and 2 degrees.

Backstory:
I will give you the short version to save time. I wanted to build a custom rifle for long range target shooting. I had been wanting one for a long time. After a lot of looking, pondering, searching, compareing and planning I decided on a savage action. I purchased a brand new model 111 (left handed) blued steel with the accu-trigger in 270win. I needed a long action with the standard bolt head. I bring it home, pull it out of the box, take it out of the stock, wrap and package it nicely and send the barreled action straight to douglas barrels in WV and have them install one of their premimum air guaged 1 inch dia barrels. 28in finished length in cal 6.5X55 sweedish mauser. 1-8 twist.
I get the barreled action back and apply a nice flat black finish of dura-coat and place it in a choate ulitimate varmiter stock. (I love this stock!) I top it off with a ken farrel scope base purchased from SSS. (they came reccomended by a friend at the range)
So after breaking in the barrel and putting a couple hundred rounds down range and playing with handloads I eventually notice groups changeing depending on how I hold the rifle. It felt like I had to kinda rotate the rifle. So I got down and started inspecting everything and thats when I finally notice the scope and base are canted. Once I saw it the first time I was like WOW, how in the heck did I not notice that untill now.
After checking everything else, I narrow it down to the holes in the reciever being factory drilled wrong. I noticed when I went from 100 to 200 yards, and from 200 to 300 yards, my windage changed each time.
I want this fixed. I have recently purchased a new scope and also purchased a box of 100 lapua brass (wore out the 20 FC shells I was using) So I figure while I am between scopes, and have new brass, now is the best time to fix this. I dont want to waste ammo to zero in this scope untill I get this problem fixed, and I dont know if the barrel will have to be removed to fix this, so I dont want to fire form the brass if there is a chance the headspace could change by a hair from removing the barrel. Savage will not do anything for me because I do not have my original sales reciept ( I looked for a hour, couldnt find it, but I have had this for about a 1.5-2 years) and the rifle has been altered from factory.

I dont want just anyone to work on my rifle, I want someone who knows what they are doing. It appears from all I have read on this forum, that SSS is the guy I want to work on my rifle. His site is plastered with do not call, email. So I emailed him with what I had and was wanting done. That was about a month ago, still no reply. I was wondering what that "time and true" was that he listed in the gunsmith services, and was wonding if it would be worthwhile to have done while the haveing the scope base fixed. Thanks to this site I found out what the T&T was, and I think I want to have that done too. So I was thinking having the base problem fixed, T&T action, install his competition recoil lug. Anything else? I really like his tactical bolt handle (friend at the range has one) and I would like to have one for mine. But he doesnt offer it for left handed actions.

So should I just call?


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v606/JeepsAndGuns/oldgun061.jpg

[Blue Avenger]

call in the morning and you might get Lisa. they do on occasion have left hand handles. the receiver can be welded and re drilled. You do have options, but they cost.

[tomme boy]

Mine is tilted to the left. I bought the action from someone that sells a lot of stuff on here. So Savage will probably not fix mine even though they drilled the holes wrong on mine as well. >:(

[Dirk]

Fred Moreo at SSS can fix it. Keep calling and emailing. They are very busy. Eventually you will get through. Be advised that the wait for Fred's service can take months before you are asked to ship your action to him, so get on the waiting list asap.

[82boy]

Welcome to the site.

What is Timing and truing if you look in the FAQs section you will find your answer.
http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,4899.0.html

The holes was drilled correctly, the action twisted during the heat treatment process.

As mentioned many times before give SSS a call they can fix the problem.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Fred Moreo at SSS can fix it. Keep calling and emailing. They are very busy. Eventually you will get through. Be advised that the wait for Fred's service can take months before you are asked to ship your action to him, so get on the waiting list asap.


Yes I saw while reading through posts I found while searching this site that there is a bit of a wait. I am in no hurry. I will try calling this afternoon. They say on their site they only take calls on thursday and friday from 12-8pm.

[82boy]

That is if you want to talk to Fred, about sdvise, or whatever.
They take calls everyday from 10 to 5 EST, I found best to call them around 10 to 11am

[possum1]

The trick to getting a call into SSS is getting a cordless phone and hitting the redial button. Take's me 15 min. sometime's.

[whitetail8827]

If this were me, I would try to match the base to the erroneous tapped positions. If you were to clamp aluminum blocks to the receiver that protruded above the tapped holes, you could get an exact measurement of where the taps fall vs. actual true center. Take the base and move it forward or rearward slightly so that you have fresh metal, and mark the positions of the actual tapped holes. This may be quite simple, but effective and quick.

[snoog37]

I've been trying to reach SSS all afternoon--the last 5.50 hours actually. Darn finger is sore. Always a busy signal. So, I cannot recommend calling in the afternoon.

[JeepsAndGuns]

Been trying myself too. Mabey they took the phone off the hook.....lol


So has anyone else on here ever had this problem? Is it common, or am I the lucky one out of 1000?

[Blue Avenger]

yes it is common there will be along list of whiners that come on to tell you that they have been trying for 36 months to get through and can't.

Just keep trying in the am and don't waste your time in the pm

[jdg]

I noticed mine was tilted to the left, after installing a Farrell base. Never noticed it before with the 2 piece dove tail mount, that it replaced. I bedded the base, and shimmed the left side with a couple of razor blades, untill it was level. I used a blade on each side of the ejection port, raising the one side about .015" Its now straight, and the bedding compound looks even. I've yet to shoot the rifle after my fix, but if it don't work out for me, I can get on that waiting list without no harm done. After removing the base, and appling more compound in front and behind the outside screws, to fill in where I skimped on the JB Weld, I just left the base attached to the action, and torqued my mounting screws.

[tomme boy]

Explain how both the front holes and the rear holes are canted to the the left. If one was canted and the other was not, it would be twisted. Both of the action screws are straight with each other. To me, that means the action is straight, and it was drilled wrong. Or prove me wrong, because i would also like to get mine fixed.

[dcloco]

Are you sure the action is not rotated in the stock? Some stocks have large holes for the action screws that allow the action to be tipped left or right in the stock.

Even if the holes in the receiver are drilled incorrectly, I don't see how this will affect your point of impact.

Believe you might have an eye or scope issue.

If the holes in the receiver are drilled canted, the base/rings/scope is still attached to the rifle securely. There have been instances of scopes running out of adjustment before being able to zero the scope.

[whitetail8827]

If the scope line of sight is off top dead center, than the line of sight will have to converge with the bullet from a windage standpoint. That does not happen when the scope is top dead center; the only convergence is vertical as the bullet meets the line of sight, crosses above it and returns to it with gravity. When the scope is off left or right, the line of sight and bullet meet at the distance you sight in at, and then they diverge and do not come back together as gravity does not affect windage movement of the projectile. Make sense?

[deadeye]

The fix is relatively simple and can be done by any competent gunsmith or machinist.

Simply mount the action in a vice on the mill.

Align it using a level across the rear tang (with bolt removed - I also like to slide a piece I have made that fits into the action providing a nice flat surface) and across the top of the receiver (this way the bottom pieces can remain intact - i.e. trigger and mag box).

Find top dead center of the action - easily done for anybody that runs a mill.

Once in place open the holes using an endmill (not a drill) in the proper location for the base screws. (A drill will walk into the old hole and just make a mess). Be careful on the front most screw as that is where the barrel screws in and although no harm is done if the barrel were to be touched - it isn't professional. IF the barrel is to be removed anyway (for some other reason) then it makes the job easier for that front hole as it then becomes a thru hole like the rest.

Once the holes are trued, they can be tapped for the next size up - usually an 8-40.

You will need to open up the holes and counter bores on the base for the larger screws.

Problem solved. - Many of the tactical shooters have there screws changed to the 8's just for added strength. It is also a common way to fix stripped out 6's.

One last thing - be sure to keep that front screw short enough as to not interfere with the threads. I can't tell you how many times I've seen barrel threads nicked up by someone installing a screw that was a hair too long.

Hope this helps. I've done a lot of them for tactical shooters at our club.

[dcloco]

If the scope line of sight is off top dead center, than the line of sight will have to converge with the bullet from a windage standpoint. That does not happen when the scope is top dead center; the only convergence is vertical as the bullet meets the line of sight, crosses above it and returns to it with gravity. When the scope is off left or right, the line of sight and bullet meet at the distance you sight in at, and then they diverge and do not come back together as gravity does not affect windage movement of the projectile. Make sense?


Agree. What whitetail is saying....if the rifle in question is sighted in a 100 yards, it will be sighted in ONLY at 100 yards. If trying to shoot further or closer, then the path of the bullet will follow the barrel, NOT the scope....as the two are not sharing anything common.

[JeepsAndGuns]

deadeye, that is exactly how my friend at the range suggested on how he would fix it if he had the tools and shop to do it. (hes taking machieneing in collage)

Whitetail, I was trying to explain that in another forum and they wouldnt hear it. They were saying that it was all in my head!....lol You explained it a lot better than I could. This is the exact reason I want this fixed.
When I changed elevation, my windage changed, when I changed windage, elevation changed.

[bigngreen]

I'm having a hard time seeing how the screw holes can be that far out of wack and still get a one piece base on, my EGW has no slop so if the holes were wrong I would not be able to get the screws in. Or are they just rotated of center but straight? Every time I have had a problem with elevation and windage moving I leveled the scope by shooting it instead of leveling to the reticule, problem solved, the cross hair may not be perfectly level but it's movement is.