OAL & comparator question

[yobuck]

You should unscrew the swivel studs if they contact the rests; definite problem.

better yet install the rear stud up close to the pistol grip. it dosent affect carrying with a sling and is out of the way of the rear bag.

[blt65]

Then you learn how to set parallax.
Thanks Stangfish, your comment prompted me to research this whole parallax thing, something I didn't fully understand but now I think I get the picture. Just for fun I am going to set my parallax as good as I can then shoot some groups without a full circle in the scope. Just to see what happens to my groups. Theroritically if my parallax is set right I should still hit the same spot.

[stangfish]

:cool: ^

So one way that I have seen it done is to point your scope into the blue sky(rifle unloaded). Using the eyepiece adjustment get the reticle as clear and focused as possible without concern of any background picture. Then place your scope on a target at the range you want to shoot. Turn the parallax (often misnamed side focus) untill your target is crisp as possible. Without any influences such as touching the rifle or the bench with any part of your body, slightly move your head up and down and sideways. The crosshair should remain still against the POI. If it moves even a half inch you are not adjusted correctly.

[82boy]

I have read through this entire post, and must say it is sporadic, and jumps around, and never addresses anything. Starting with the original post. When using a comparator, don't think of these numbers as gospel. The point behind a comparator is to have a reference point for your reloading. Use only one comparator, as reading will very from comparator to comparator. Also bullets may have several ogive measurement per box, it is not uncommon to find two or three different bullet lengths measuring from the ogive to the base in a box of 100 bullets. So with that said separate your bullets by ogive length, find where the lands are touching on the bullet (Not Jammed.) record this measurement for future measurement, and adjust from there.

On to everything else, as far as shooting technique, there are many different types of techniques, and each has it place. If your shooting from a bench, and shooting off of a rest, and rear bag, there is two basic shooting styles. 1 is free recoil, 2 is pinned against the rest. Depending of the balance of the rifle, and other fashions may dictate how the gun shoots best. Many Benchrest shooters will use both forms depending on the type of shooting they are doing. If they have a switchy wind day, where they are shooting fast, they may pin the rifle. If the day is predictable, and is a "trigger pull" contest, they will free recoil the rifle. Some guns will shoot better one way, and not shoot well the other. Also the way a gun recoils will tell if the rifle is in tune or not. I rifle that the load is in tune for the conditions will recoil smoothly back, a rifle that is out of tune will recoil and move all around in all different directions.

Warren Pages book is very dated, and has been out of print since the 1980's, The book was first printed in 1973, and I believe Warren died in 1977. Yes there is some good reference in the book, and good information, but some more modern books may be better suited for a newer shooter. I have friends that greatly admire Warren, and he was a great ledged of Benchrest, but there is better suited books out there. To go further Warren's book is hard to find, and copies can be very expensive. If your looking for a great book, that is a bi more modern, and is still in print, and can be obtained for little money, then look for my friends Glenn Newick's book "Ultimate in rifle accuracy." Glenn's book is also a bit dated as it was written in 1989, but it references the best material from Warren Pages book, and adds a more modern twist onto shooting. Glenn is presently writing a new book, and it may be out soon, but his first book is one I truly cherish. If your wanting to spend a bit more money, I would then recommend Mike Ratigan's, and Tony Boyer's books. Mikes book also has reference to Warren pages, and Glenn Newick's book, and is more modern, as it was written in 2007. Tony is the man of Benchrest, and his book is written for both hunting and Benchrest rifles. Tony's book was written in 2010. In all three of these book they address proper set up of scopes, Benchrest technique, and use of wind flags.

With all of this said, the best way to learn to shoot is to go out and experiment, don't rely on the internet to get this information. Remember when dealing with information it is worth what you pay for it. The best learning tool, is to find a shooting mentor. Find someone that shoots, well, and learn from them. There is a lot to accurate shooting, and all of it is critical. Once you understand this, you should easily be able to shoot 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch 100 yard 5 shoot groups all day long, with a out of box Savage rifle.

Last words, nothing replaces trigger time. You don't have to fire a lot of rounds. Sit behind the rest with the cross hairs on the target and dry fire the rifle, if it moves, there is your first problem. Now figure out why. Also pay attention to trigger pull, if your pulling the trigger, and you see the cross hairs walk away from the point of aim, you have another problem. Get comfortable behind the rifle, without this your never shoot good. If your not comfortable, figure out why, and find out how to get to the point where things feel right. Shooting with out some sort of wind flags is a total waste of time. They don't have to be expensive, a few pieces of surveyor's tape tied to a stick at a few different yardages is all that is needed. Watch for optical illusions, as this will wreck any chance of shooting a good group. What I mean is watch mirage, light conditions, and parallax. Last off nothing replaces experience behind the trigger.

[moonbogg]

Great replies, thank you. I will remove the swivel studs and also lighten the accutrigger pull weight. I'll try the dry firing for certain, because that just sounds like the perfect way to diagnose my trigger control issues since I know they are there. I do have a bit of good news however. You see, I was visually looking at the groups and didn't like them. I didn't bother to measure them, so just for fun I did measure them. There were a few that were out right poor, about 1 1/2 to 2" at the worst. But about half of them were 5/8", 3/4", 7/8" and also 1 1/4". So, with some work I feel I can shoot groups like that more consistently. Same batch of ammo with groups that vary that much leads me to suspect my shooting needs to be more consistent. I'll report back Sunday when I get back from the range. I found that the 53gr V-max shoots pretty well.

[moonbogg]

Went to range Monday. I removed the sling swivels, lightened the trigger pull to its lowest (about 1lb I think) and let the gun rest in a neutral position on the target, making sure to not force the gun into alignment for each shot. The target board was used previously, so try to ignore the spray. Each orange circle has a new 5 shot group except for a couple reused circles where orange dots covered old holes.
This was an improvement. I wasn't able to consistently shoot decent groups before, but now I can. Sweet! It will get better as well. I used mixed brass, hardly developed the loads at all, and only had a couple bullets to choose from.

Number of groups for test: 13
Best group: .34"
Worst group: 1.04"
Average group size: .75"

Best group
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w270/artilary6/6ed378b9-56b8-4525-b00f-f8d51b39957b.jpg (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/artilary6/media/6ed378b9-56b8-4525-b00f-f8d51b39957b.jpg.html)

Worst group
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w270/artilary6/de07f410-d67d-46bf-afe0-f378c391233f.jpg (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/artilary6/media/de07f410-d67d-46bf-afe0-f378c391233f.jpg.html)

All groups
http://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w270/artilary6/DSC_0845-1.jpg (http://s178.photobucket.com/user/artilary6/media/DSC_0845-1.jpg.html)

[stangfish]

Good job moonbog. Just for grins do you think getting the Parallax right helped?

[moonbogg]

Good job moonbog. Just for grins do you think getting the Parallax right helped?


Yes, that's critical. I had experimented with that a few months ago, so I was aware of it but I did check again just to make sure. I moved my head back and forth and sure enough, when adjusted properly the crosshairs were locked on target. Otherwise its a roll of the dice if I hit it or not with parallax not perfectly adjusted.

[CharlieNC]

Congrats on your improvement. Its great to have a web board where you can actually learn and get help.