Bullet Jump

[pbcaster45]

I never realized before how important bullet jump can be to accuracy. My Savage bolt actions usually shoot just great when using the recommended LOAL specified in loading manuals - but my Remington Model 700 SPS .308 Winchester was a different story! I'd been working with it for weeks trying to come up with a decent load (0.5 MOA or better) and it just wasn't happening. I was determined to use handloads which would function through the magazine and that meant nothing longer than 2.829. I did find one good load using the Nosler 168 gr Ballistic Tip that would put five shots under 1/2 inch but most of my other loads weren't doing so hot (1 - 2 inches). The Ballistic Tip would be fine for hunting deer and feral hogs so I relented and tried seating out closer to the lands. Huge improvement!

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/700SPSBeautyShot.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Remington700SPS.jpg

Note: All bullets seated for 0.018 bullet jump.

Group #1:
Bullet Hornady 168 gr. A-Max
Powder: 43.5 grs. Alliant Reloader 15
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Remington
LOAL: 2.945 (2.322 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)

Group #2:
Bullet: Berger 168 gr. BT Match
Powder: 44.0 gr. Hodgdon Varget
Primer: CCI-BR2
Case: Lapua
LOAL: 2.937 (2.325 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)

Group #3:
Bullet: Nosler 175 gr Custom Competition
Powder: 43.0 gr. Hodgdon Varget
Primer: CCI-BR2
Case: Lapua
LOAL: 2.960 (2.380 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)

Group #4:
Bullet: Nosler 168 gr Ballistic Tip
Powder: 44.0 gr. Hodgdon Varget
Primer: CCI-BR2
Case: Lapua
LOAL: 3.042 (2.395 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)

[LG]

Interesting. I'm shooting Hornady 168gr BTHP bullets in my 700 SPS .308. I played around with seating depth but it didn't seem to make a difference, nothing that I noticed anyway. So I'm just loading the rounds at 2.800" OAL to fit the magazine. That's a big jump: OAL to lands is 2.947".

[pbcaster45]

Today I repeated the test with my Remington plus my two Savage .308s. I used the Nosler 175 gr. HPBT again but this time with the bullets seated for 0.030 and 0.050 bullet jump.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Rem700SPS100yards.jpg

Group#1
Bullet: Hornady 168 gr. A-Max
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 43.5 grs.
Primer: CCI-BR2
Case: Remington
LOAL: 2.945 (2.322 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)
Comments: Jam length is 2.340 Base to Ogive with this bullet. This seating depth used for 0.018 bullet jump

Group#2&5
Bullet: Nosler 175 gr. HPBT
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 43.5 grs
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Winchester
LOAL: 2.945 (2.368 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)
Comments: Jam length is 2.398 Base to Ogive with this bullet. This seating depth used for 0.030 bullet jump

Group#3&4
Bullet: Nosler 175 gr. HPBT
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 43.5 grs
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Winchester
LOAL: 2.925 (2.348 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point)
Comments: Jam length is 2.398 Base to Ogive with this bullet. This seating depth used for 0.050 bullet jump

I shot group #5 because I was having a hard time believing bullet jump made that much difference. I thought maybe it was fouling or the barrel getting warm - no, it was the bullet jump.

I have some 168 gr. HPBTs made by Prvi Partizan with a very short full caliber section. When seated to the normal 2.800 they would fall into the case - right on top of the powder charge. The only way I could use them when seated out would be by single loading so I gave it a try from two rifles, my custom 16FLHSS and stock Savage 10FLP.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Sav16FLHSS308Win.jpg

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/10FLPDownrange.jpg

The target.

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Widener168grHPBT100yards-1.jpg

The load.

10FLP
Bullet: Prvi Partizan 168 gr. BTHP
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 45.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: New Winchester
LOAL: 2.961 (2.319 with Stoney Point)
Comments: Determined 2.381 is jam length with Stoney Point. Rounds seated to 2.319 for 0.062 bullet jump to rifling (originally loaded for 16FLHSS)

16FLHSS
Bullet: Prvi Partizan 168 gr. BTHP
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 45.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: New Winchester
LOAL: 2.961 (2.319 with Stoney Point)
Comments: Determined 2.337 is jam length with Stoney Point. Rounds seated to 2.319 for 0.018 bullet jump to rifling.

Well, I hope I didn't put anyone to sleep!

[pbcaster45]

LG,
I'm probably going to stay with the Hornady 168 gr A-Max for target shooting. I guess with all the extra powder capacity from seating out and the 26 inch barrel I'll be able to get some pretty good velocity numbers. I could have a gunsmith cut off a barrel thread but I'd rather just wear the barrel out and then get a Shilen or PAC-NOR. From what I hear long throats are a common problem on Remingtons. If this is what makes the Remington Snobs all hot and bothered I'll stick to my ugly Savage rifles! Well, I've got my deer/feral hog load - that's what matters...

http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/M700SPSwith168grNoslerBallisticTip1.jpg

Bullet: Nosler 168 gr. Ballistic Tip
Powder: Hodgdon Varget 43.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Federal
LOAL: 2.820 (2.174 base to ogive with Stoney Point)
Comments: Jam length is 3.055 or 2.413 base to ogive with Stoney Point. This seating dept is for magazine function (magazine length 2.829), bullet jump 0.239. Very accurate! Best 5 shot group at 100 yards measured 0.572!

[LG]

Judging from group #1, it looks like the 168gr A-Max is working really well for you.

I'm using 168gr A-Max bullets in my Savage 10 FP. I haven't played much with it yet, but so far it's looking promising. I'm getting good groups with 43.5 grains of Varget (same load as yours). I'm using Winchester brass and Remington 9 1/2 primers. OAL is 2.815" which is a .020" jump in the Savage barrel. Unlike the Rem 700, my 10 FP has a relatively short throat. I think I'll stick with the 168gr A-Max bullets for the 10 FP. Just need to find primers so I can fine tune a load for it. I'm running really low on large rifle primers...

I haven't tried the A-Max bullets in the Rem 700 yet, just the 168gr BTHP.

[1Shot]

...Don't knock the Remmy's too much with there long throats ....Mine will run with any savage out there..lol...First shot outside of the Bull is out of a cold clean tube.... ;D..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/rm1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v692/sqek/rm.jpg

[psharon97]

We were shooting my gunsmith remington xr100 and found that seating bullets deeper would send bullets everywhere. When the bullet was close to the lands, it was shooting one hole groups.

[pbcaster45]

Well, I got fed up with the long throat on my 700 SPS and had it rebarreled (260 Remington) and tuned up by Mike Bryant at Bryant Custom. It doesn't have a "Giraffe Throat" anymore!


http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/RightSide.jpg


http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/02Bryant700RightSide.jpg

Five shots at 100 yards.


http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/03FiveShots100yards.jpg

I'm not sure if I can improve on this load! Just used a load from the Nosler manual that Mike recommended and it put 5 shots in one hole (0.462!)


Kreiger Fluted 26 inch SS Barrel (4 groove, 1 in 8 twist)
260 Remington
H-S Precision Varmint Stock (Glass Bedded)
H-S Precision Magazine & Trigger Guard
Badger Ordance 20 MOA Cant Scope Base
Burris Signature Rings
Sightron SII 4-16 42mm with Mil-Dot Reticle
Action Blue Printed
Firing Pin Hole Bushed
Barrel & Action Finished in Black Dura Coat

The test load:

Bullet: Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip
Powder: IMR-4350 44.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Remington
LOAL: 2.785 (2.262 base to ogive for 0.012 bullet jump to lands)

I know, this is a strange place to post about a Remington. Just to show, with a talented gunsmith you can bring a Remington up to the standards of a Savage!

[1Shot]

...Well, you had 1 of the best out there to do it... ;)...Look's good to me... ;D...Gotta love those Nosler BT's...What are you going to do with that Remmy .308 bbl..???

[pbcaster45]

1Shot,

Gave the .308 barrel to one of my hunting buddies. He's a packrat so I'll be surprised if he does anything with it!

[flatshooter]

sup wit dat Rem? ??? ::)

[frank1947]

good shooting guys

[pbcaster45]

Still trying to refine my hunting load but I really don't have much work to do. I got my left hand Timney trigger in Friday, Mike Bryant was going to install it but Timney sent a right hand version by mistake - so I did it myself. Didn't have a lot of room with the H-S Precision bottom metal but the new trigger did fit. I like the wider pad and finger grooves, it's 2 1/2 lbs and feels great!


http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Timney700Trigger.jpg

I did some shooting/chronograph work at 200 yards. I was really surprised to be getting this much velocity with 43.5 grs. of IMR 4350, that Krieger must have a tight bore. Shooting at 200 yards is great practice but I really do need to get some wind flags...


http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Nosler120grBT200yards.jpg

Bullet: Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip
Powder: IMR-4350 43.5 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Nosler
LOAL: 2.785 (2.262 base to ogive/0.012 bullet jump to lands)
Average Velocity: 2916.88 fps
Extreme Spread: 24.60
Standard Deviation: 9.16

#01 2911.95 fps
#02 2924.51 fps
#03 2916.86 fps
#04 2908.45 fps
#05 2929.56 fps
#06 2904.96 fps
#07 2914.75 fps
#08 2906.35 fps
#09 2928.15 fps
#10 2923.20 fps

[pbcaster45]

Guys, I love all my Savage rifles but it looks like I've got a Remington I kinda like! Don't worry, it's probably the only one I'll ever own! Brotherhood of the Barrel Nut and all that! Also, I don't see a lot of information about .260 Remington hunting loads around these parts...


http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/BryantCustom260Remington.jpg

The .260 Remington load I plan to use for whitetails this year (I increased the original charge 1/2 gr.)

Bullet: Nosler 120 gr. Ballistic Tip
Powder: IMR-4350 44.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Nosler (1st Loading)
LOAL: 2.785 (2.262 base to ogive for 0.012 bullet jump to lands)
Average Velocity: 2927.96 fps
Comments: Best five-shot group at 200 yards was 0.726 inches (paid more attention to the wind this time).


http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Nosler120grBallisticTips200yards.jpg

I was having trouble locating more Ballistic Tips so I tried some Nosler 125 gr Partitions. Still more load work required but they don't give up much accuracy to the Ballistic Tips... and they've got a good reputation on game!

Bullet: Nosler 125 gr. Partition
Powder: IMR-4350 43.0 grs.
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Remington (1st Loading)
LOAL: 2.776 (2.270 base to ogive for 0.006 bullet jump to lands)
Average Velocity: 2841.50 fps
Comments: Jam length is 2.276 base to ogive or about 2.782 LOAL. Best five-shot group at 200 yards was 1.263 inches.


http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Nosler125grPartitions200yards.jpg

For now I'm leaving it sighted in for the Partitions. My alternate rifle will by my Savage 10FLP .308 Winchester. I've almost got the velocity where I want it and the accuracy is still sub-MOA.


http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc265/pbcaster45/Sav10FLPMcM.jpg

Bullet: Nosler 168 gr. Ballistic Tip
Powder: Alliant Reloader 15 45.0 grs
Primer: Federal 210
Case: Winchester (5th firing)
LOAL: 2.895 (2.273 Base to Ogive)
Average Velocity: 2625.35 fps
Extreme Spread: 10.83
Standard Deviation: 4.12
Comments: Seated for magazine function, 0.085 bullet jump to lands.