Cutting Savage 111 Stock

[ycastane]

Okay so here is some laughing material LOL. Here are the photos from the right, left and front. Also the scope is mounted with those rings temporarily but at 3x where the scope is that is where i have a clear picture, if i push it forward that picture is gone, keep in mind this is based on the way i am holding the rifle, leaning my head, cheek weld, etc which could be wrong, somehow i dont think half this forum is wrong and i might be right so there must be something wrong with the form unless..............

Anyways here are the photos......
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a204/Papiriqui/null-1708.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/Papiriqui/media/null-1708.jpg.html)http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a204/Papiriqui/null-1685.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/Papiriqui/media/null-1685.jpg.html)http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a204/Papiriqui/null-1638.jpg (http://s12.photobucket.com/user/Papiriqui/media/null-1638.jpg.html)

[Mach2]

Looking at the pics and comparing to my 30-06 with a 3.5-10-50 scope it seems your scope is too far back. Slide it forward almost as far as the rings allow.

[ycastane]

Really? This is a 3-9x40 but pushing it forward makes the circle instead ot large very small and fuzzy, just the same as if i magnify to 9x. Now im totally lost!! I need something to read on this to see what the hell am i doing wrong!!! Do you guys have a site or something that would guide someone through this process? I'll research tomorrow on google and aee if i can find something, perhaps i have it all wrong, i dont know anymore to be totally honest. Now im conpletely confused lol.

[pitsnipe]

ycastane,
Thank you for the pics. You are not "square with the gun. Look at your shoulders in those pics. They aren't at a 90 degree (or ever so slightly less) to the weapon. You are angled too far back. Your head is too far back on the stock. At that position it is impossible to get a complete sight picture. Remember, you want to establish scope position at the HIGHEST not lowest power. The height of the scope looks great. Your "weld" with the "old" rings had to be on your chin. Square yourself up with the weapon. Try setting up in a prone position. Your shoulders will take on a "natural" 90 degree (or very close to it) angle to the weapon and you will then see AND feel the difference.

[ycastane]

Thanks Pit! I'll try that!

[Mach2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW1LZKJmtbw

Here's a stance on the AR since you like ARs but you use the same stance on your Savage.

[Mach2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9VTMzCiZtE

This youtube discusses the black ring around the image that you are getting.
Also notice how far his scope is forward in the rings.

[ycastane]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EW1LZKJmtbw

Here's a stance on the AR since you like ARs but you use the same stance on your Savage.

Jerry is good. Thanks Mach i will try this later today for sure.

[ycastane]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9VTMzCiZtE

This youtube discusses the black ring around the image that you are getting.
Also notice how far his scope is forward in the rings.

Yes this is where i have the most issue because unless i bring it to far back i can see the black shadow. So now i'll concentrate on proper form.

Quick question, funny one but here it goes. Do you think muscle mass has anything to do with this issue, im not saying 100% but i have big shoulders and chest, therefor i think the rifle is pushed away more than the average Joe, thank the gym for this one. Just curious, the way i see it is like having a thicker recoil pad LOL.

[davemuzz]

Mach2 linked you to some good video's to watch and study. Just an observation of looking at your pictures is your head\cheek is too far back on the stock. I'm sure that's because your scope is mounted too far back. Also, if you study the second link, you can see how tight the shooter is holding his face against the cheek weld....and where his nose is almost flush against the top of the stock. That's where you need to be.

Dave

[ycastane]

Gotcha! Yeah saw the vids, i do believe i am not leaning therefor my head/cheek are to far barck but not because of the scope but because of bringing the rifle to you idea, its just i took it to far and not leaned at all so i temained straight which is where my problem is i think. I was under the impression that leaning a bit and stuff was not comfortable that it had to be different. Definitely me!!! Need to work on this big time!

[Mach2]

Yes this is where i have the most issue because unless i bring it to far back i can see the black shadow. So now i'll concentrate on proper form.

Quick question, funny one but here it goes. Do you think muscle mass has anything to do with this issue, im not saying 100% but i have big shoulders and chest, therefor i think the rifle is pushed away more than the average Joe, thank the gym for this one. Just curious, the way i see it is like having a thicker recoil pad LOL.

Nah, but perhaps you got used to some improper techniques from your AR days. Different body styles should have no effect upon stance.

[ycastane]

Okay good. Just ruling everything out since i have to start from scratch.

[Silvercrow1]

Hi Ycastane- Very busy today but looks like you are getting good advice. For off-hand, standing rifle shooting (non-competition) stance, I like to tell folks, especially those who are athletic / sports oriented, to take a "fighter's stance", in other words, you body somewhat "bladed" to the target. For a right-handed person; left foot forward and generally pointing at the target. Right foot back, pointing right- so that your feet are now forming an "L", thereabouts. Bring your hands / arms up as if you were engaging in a fight; your left hand / arm is forward, in "front", about chin high- right hand / arm is back. You are looking over your left fist. Your right shoulder is now slightly "rearward".

Now imagine yourself holding the rifle; left hand is gripping the forearm / forestock. The butt of the rifle is firmly in the pocket between the top part of your right chest muscle and the "ball" of your shoulder, Right hand gripping the pistol grip of the stock. Your right cheek is firmly planted on the comb of the stock, VERY near and above your right hand. That comb is a "Weld" for your cheek bone. This puts you in position where your eye will be 3+ inches from the ocular bell of the scope. OH- knees are slightly bent and you are leaning slightly forward- an "On Balance" position. Steady position for stability and to absorb recoil.

I don't know if my description came out right- if I have time tonight I'll have the wife take some pics that may help.

Hang in- you're gonna get it!

Brian

[ycastane]

Silver this reminds me of skeet shooting, leaning forward, bent knees, bidy slightly angled, etc. am i correct? This is normally the position i choose for every kind of shooting including skeet. For some reason i was leaving my head and neck to straight therefor back from the scope, just tried it and it worked way better, just need to adjust the sight to the correct position but i think is very close compared to before i want to hit my head with the scope lol

[Silvercrow1]

Silver this reminds me of skeet shooting, leaning forward, bent knees, bidy slightly angled, etc. am i correct? This is normally the position i choose for every kind of shooting including skeet. For some reason i was leaving my head and neck to straight therefor back from the scope, just tried it and it worked way better, just need to adjust the sight to the correct position but i think is very close compared to before i want to hit my head with the scope lol

You got it! I just watched the AR video that was linked for you- he does a much better job than I explaining it (big surprise there...:p) and of course the visuals really help too! And yes, there may have to be minor "tweaking". For instance, my body / head geometry requires me to use a "cheek-riser" on almost ALL gunstocks. Yet the scope is mounted with the objective bell VERY close to the barrel on all three of my rifles.

Not too radical of a lean, but the idea is to have a stable platform, yet comfortable. And the demonstrator is a combat type shooter and shows how from the position one can move, pivot etc. He also emphasized REPEATABILITY. Once you get a good position, stock weld, etc., the ability to duplicate that is paramount.

One of the things I like about the shooting sports is that a person can continually improve, adapt etc. and better his/her skill & score. I've been an NRA handgun and personal protection certified instructor since 1996 and nothing makes me happier than sharing this great sport with others. I'm just now really getting into rifle and am loving it.

BTW- I sincerely mean it when I say that THIS board is the most friendly AND knowledgable board I've EVER been on.

Really glad things are going better for you, Bro! Brian

[ycastane]

Thanks Brian!!!! I can definitely can tell so far. Glad i found this board;)