Shilen vs McGowen?

[Kaianuanu]

Are shilens worth the extra money over a McGowen? Also, are the shilen select match barrels worth the extra $100 over their standard grade match barrels? I'm looking to have a bull barrel made in 270 for a long range/tactical build, that serves for medium-game hunting and varmint hunting.

prices (all pre-fitted to my specs)

McGowen Chrome-Moly - $270 + S&H
McGowen stainless - $299 + S&H

Shilen Chrome-Moly "match grade" - $345 + S&H
Shilen Stainless "match grade" - $374 + S&H
Shilen Stainless "select match" - $449 + S&H

[stangfish]

It may depend on what you are trying to do. When You start getting into the 450 range buying a profiled blank starts looking like a good option. That is where you can get the barrel chambered for not only your cartridge but if you're going heavy(long) the smith can cut the throat where it needs to be as well.

It could be said that the difference between .4" groups and .2 groups is the money spent on the barrel.

[Kaianuanu]

If only i could be assured of .2" groups. Anyway, I really hadn't considered doing a contoured blank. I just looked it up and 277 Krieger contoured blanks are $315. (less than I thought) If I got one of these, how much do you think it would cost me to have a smith thread, chamber, and install it?

[stangfish]

Contact local reputable smiths. Discuss what you want to do. What weight of bullet you intend on using. Don't rush him but request a time frame.

This way can determine if you want to delete the barrel nut. Have him at least true the action face. Whatever you want since you are expecting him to assemble it.

My guy does chambers for 75. Threading the tenon would probably be between 125 to 200 depending on how you wanted it done, barrel nut or no barrel nut unless you know a guy that has very reasonable rates but it would be worth the money. You could pay up to 300 maybe in a worst case scenario. If you had planned on your own head spacing that would be a different story.

[82boy]

I can speak on the part of Shilen barrels, as I have owned a few. I have a McGowan coming, and we will see how it compares. I can speak for McGowan's employees, they are top notch and customer service is their top priority. I have heard many satisfied customers rave about how good their McGowan barrels are. For the most part all premium barrel makers are going to be on par with each other. I have owned, Douglas, Brux, Krieger, Bartline, Hart, Shilen, and Criterion. Out of them all there isn't a nickels worth of difference in them, they all shoot great. The upper crust barrels offered like Douglas's double air gauge, or Shilen's select match, as far as them being worth more money, that only you can decide by the buyer, in my experience I have never seen where it made any difference. With that all said barrels have their own personality, and no two are the same, even if they have been made one right after, and chambered with the same machinery. There is going to be barrels that are Hummers, (A barrel that shoots better than any other.) and some that are bummers, (Barrels that don't shoots as good as others.) and that is from any manufacture, and there is no guarantee that you will get one or the other. Most barrels are in the middle ground, they shoot great, and perform as well as others. I would say it is safe to say that more than 3/4's of the barrels sold will not be put to the test of there highest ability, meaning most shooters lack the ability to push the barrel to its edge of accuracy potential. I will say that many competitive Benchrest shooters have, will , and continue to shoot Shilen barrels.

To finish this up, I would stay away from Chrome moly barrels, as the savings will be ate up with finishing the barrel. Bluing, or coatings can put the price of the barrel up to the same price as a stainless barrel. I hope this help you make your decision.

[CharlieNC]

Ditto 82boy. I own(ed) Savage, McGowan, CBI, and Shilen barrels and they all shoot 1/2 MOA which is as good as I can do consistently. You need to have decent components (barrel, stock, scope, trigger, etc) but working up a good load is probably more important than anything else. Having said that I have ordered a Brux so I can continue to remove all the excuses and push myself into becoming a better shooter.

[jdpenterprises]

Your pricing seems high, are you adding something extra? Have you checked with Jim Briggs at nss? His prices are better if your not adding "special" work.

[Captlink]

I only order non profiled blanks and agree they all have potential if done right.I have yet to shoot a stainless barrel that will out perform a chrome molly barrel from any manufacturer.

[82boy]

I have yet to shoot a stainless barrel that will out perform a chrome molly barrel from any manufacturer.

How many barrels of each have you shot? What was your criteria to come to this conclusion.

[stangfish]

He says he is a master gunsmith.

[wbm]

I own(ed) Savage, McGowan, CBI, and Shilen barrels

Me too. The CBI gets my vote for the best.

[Captlink]

I have ER Shaw barrels that will shoot with barrels with XX grades and prices to match.A great barrel will not perform if its prepared poorly.I have "heard" that stainless is great but have never seen it in real life from rifles to pistols.The accuracy is usually very good but not outstanding.

[Dennis]

If only i could be assured of .2" groups. Anyway, I really hadn't considered doing a contoured blank. I just looked it up and 277 Krieger contoured blanks are $315. (less than I thought) If I got one of these, how much do you think it would cost me to have a smith thread, chamber, and install it?

Assurance of .200 groups or less from any barrel manufacturer is going to be very tough. Starting with the shooter, many factors go into making these kind of groups happen. If a manufacturer could make this happen, everybody else would be out of business.

I will admit as many barrels as I have gone through, I have only had a few that I could semi-consistently depend on .200 groups or less. And on the days I didn't, it was me not having a good day. Usually .250 is my mark and I can hold my own @ 600 yards with these barrels (Stainless).

I have shot all my life and used many different brand barrels until recently. I wore out a Broughton which turned out to be one of the best barrels I have ever owned! I put it over the 2 Krieger's I have owned.


how much do you think it would cost me to have a smith thread, chamber, and install it?

The above is going to depend on the smith you choose. Prices vary, just make sure you get a reputable smith. Good smith's well known are going to charge for their workmanship, but it's usually worth it.

Whatever way you decide to go, your going to have to do your part. Practice is critical. Loading your bullets require a lot of testing and patience. Brass prep IMO is critical, at least it made a difference with me. Your loaded rounds have to be consistent, to the thousandths. A good properly adjusted trigger is a must. The point I am making is it takes more than a barrel to make <.250 groups happen consistently.

Just for kicks, below is a target shooting 123 Scenars out of my current 6.5x47 Lapua. Blowing up spotters at 600 is no problem. I have 4 rifles I can depend on for this type of accuracy. I could post pictures of the other targets. But I wanted to show this one as 1/10 grain of powder makes a difference. Seating depth is critical as well. Target states bullets are kissing the lands, but I am probably about .002 off. A few other factors play a part too. All rifles sport Savage Actions. (PTA's)

Before I am asked, the hole with the X through it was one of my first sighter shots for the day.

Load info on these targets may be HOT in your rifle. If you try to copy the loads, start 2.0 grains lower and work up. Also start .010 off the lands with your bullets and work in if necessary.

http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae56/Dennis4437/123L65x47362VargetCCI450GroupPicsPerfectBEST-2.jpg

Another group 22-250

http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae56/Dennis4437/22-250BEST355RE1552grBergers.jpg

6brx load development

http://i957.photobucket.com/albums/ae56/Dennis4437/DSC02538.jpg

[82boy]

If only i could be assured of .2" groups. Anyway, I really hadn't considered doing a contoured blank. I just looked it up and 277 Krieger contoured blanks are $315. (less than I thought) If I got one of these, how much do you think it would cost me to have a smith thread, chamber, and install it?

Expecting .2 groups form a 270 may be asking a bit much. Out of all the barrels I have listed if they don't shoot at least .2 groups in a 6 PPC I throw them out. Right now it is 16+ month wait for a Krieger blank, and when you have it finished you will have close to $500 in it.

[Dennis]

Expecting .2 groups form a 270 may be asking a bit much.

Agree, even though the 270 is considered on of the best hunting rounds available, It's not a match rifle.

Dennis

[shoalwater]

I think you can get a 270 to shoot as good as any other caliber, the problem is the lack of good quality high BC match bullets. Berger has a 150gr with .531 BC that would probably be pretty good. You might want to look at a 6.5mm or 7mm, bullet choices are much better.

As far as barrel choices you really can't go wrong with any of the match grade barrel makers. I am biased toward Pac-Nor as I have had really good luck with their barrels. That being said, I just built a 6.5 Creedmoor with a McGowen for a buddy. I am still doing load development for it, but it looks like it will be a .2 to .4 moa gun. He should be able to get on steel out to 1500 as he gets more trigger time at long distance under his belt.

[Dennis]

shoalwater, keep us posted on your load development. The 6.5 Creedmoor is very popular.

Dennis

[stangfish]

Yes JP, Keep us updated and let me know when your comming this way. I still need to pick that stuff up for you.

[82boy]

I thought would share this, here is a 5 shot group shot out of a McGowan barrel at 100 yards, on a 100 degree day, with heavy switching winds. I shot this with old junk brass that has been loaded at least 75 times. I had one bullet that jumped out of the group, and I can say this was caused by brass problems, as this piece repeated the action, and was thrown out. Shots 1,2,3, and 5 are in the small hole shot #4 is the hole above it. I think the pictures tell the tale.
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d145/82boy/mcgowan2001_zps12980dc0.jpg (http://s34.photobucket.com/user/82boy/media/mcgowan2001_zps12980dc0.jpg.html)

[MikeCTX]

Nice shooting Patrick!