CCI200 primers missfiring

[fgw_in_fla]

Global warming?....

[Nandy]

Global warming?....

I side with the chupacabra...
Team, keep in mind that I have shot twice as many Winchester primers from the same gun on the same shooting session as the cci missfires with no issue so I doubt it is the firing pin. However I will still look into it.

[82boy]

If there is a chance those primers failed due to my reloading it will have to be me not seating the primers properly. Unfortunately I ran those shells by the decaping die already. I do clean the primer pockets and make sure the flash hole is unobstructed.

Here is a pic of one of the shells that failed to ignite.

http://i305.photobucket.com/albums/nn215/nandy_temp/20130708_205348.jpg

Looking at the primer strike it looks extremely light, and looks like there is a ignition problem within the action. The shape of the firing pin dent doesn't look right either. Have you blanked any primers in the past? The reason I ask, is sometime when a primer is blanked (Broken open.) the gas will misshape the firing pin, or even break the firing pin, and cause ignition problems. (primer blanking can also cause other problems that can add to ignition problems.) For proper ignition you need the firing pin strike to dent the primer at least .019. (There is a procedure to measure this, and you don't just measure the dent in the primer.) You start going down from this number you will experience what is know as cold fire.(The primer ignites but doesn't have its full energy.)

[82boy]

I side with the chupacabra...
Team, keep in mind that I have shot twice as many Winchester primers from the same gun on the same shooting session as the cci missfires with no issue so I doubt it is the firing pin. However I will still look into it.

Don't jump to this conclusion so fast, I would say your having ignition problems, and even though the primers go off on the Winchester primer your on the verge of cold fire. When you switch to a primer with a different thickness of cup, this magnifies this cold fire situation, and makes it a no fire situation. If you fix the problem and have proper ignition, you may find that accuracy goes way up, even with your old primers. Have you ever had shots that just don't make sense? The bullet goes in an unpredicted area. This is what cold fire will produce.

[Nandy]

Im just going to use the bolt firepin that fred (sss) worked on. All I have to do is change the bolthead and double check my headspace... will post back... once I get to use those shells but the way it looks is that I wont be using them for a bit due to lack of bullets..

[thomae]

Im just going to use the bolt firepin that fred (sss) worked on. All I have to do is change the bolthead and double check my headspace... will post back... once I get to use those shells but the way it looks is that I wont be using them for a bit due to lack of bullets..Don't forget to double check your firing pin protrusion.

[devildogandboy]

check your firing pin protrusion. here's the link.
http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?143-Firing-Pin-Protrusion-Data

I switched to Rem primers over the CCIs, like them better!

[Westcliffe01]

It is fairly well known that CCI primers have harder cups.

[eddiesindian]

It is fairly well known that CCI primers have harder cups.

yep-yep.
thats "one' of the reasons why I use them on my progressive press,s as well.
To my eyes.....the strike is too light

[Nandy]

I just got done adjusting the firing pin. The ping protrusion is .040 (it was either that or .033) and the spring has been compressed to 2.596. Now I will be extra careful seating the primers and hopefully I will not see this problem again... The load doing this is a hunting load and that is the last thing I want to happen when I have game in sights....

[psharon97]

I had a problem with CCI200 primers when I was using them for my 7mm Magnum. There was a half second delay between the firing pin striking the primer and the primer igniting. I switch to Winchester LRM primer and resolved the issue. Can you give your complete load data for your 30-06?

[ralphob]

I had a very similar problem using cci 450's in my 6mm dasher using Lapua Brass. About 1/3 of the rounds would not ignite. My unignited primers looked pretty much like the one in this thread. I was convinced that CCI had a bad batch of primers so I called them. Talked to a very nice gentlemen. He told me that CCI's failure rate in primers is something like 1 in a million primers or less. He then told me the lapua brass has deeper primer pockets as they are based on a european standard and not SAMI. Anyway he told me to seat them 3 to 5 thousandths below flush. It would ensure the primer was tight against the brass and would ignite. I did what he told me and now they everything goes bang. I would try and seat them a little deeper and see if the problem goes away.

[Nandy]

psharon, sorry for the delay. I meant to reply to you but it slipped my head.
Reminton 165 corelokts bc .339
Accurate 4350 58.9 gr
CCI 200LR
Federal case
Case oal 2.699
A&B 30-06, 1-10, 24", Sporter Barrel
best group is .22" at 100yds worst group I had so far is .5somthing...

As good as this is shooting I really want to work the kinks out of the primer issue.

I am setting the primer all the way in and will do some testing soon on a different bullet but using the same cci primers in the same federal shells...

[Nandy]

I confirmed this weekend I am having FTF also with the winchester primers. so that leaves the problem pointing to the action. I think I have another firepin and will swap whatever I have. I had the ftf with the gun being stock and after the bolt adjustmet, SSS trigger and A&B barrel swap so this might be the reason why the owner sold the gun to the gun shop I bought it from... it was set up as a 7mm rem mag so I swapped the stock, barrel, bolt head, barrel nut, recoil lug, magazine and follower.
Out of the 5 total shells I had ftf in the last session only one fired at a second attemp and the other one did not fire in a second attemp but did fire on another try after I very reluctantly used the primer seating tool one more time but I did not felt the primer got seated any deeper or moved at all. Another shell that got the same primer reseating treatment did not go off... So at this time I am not looking too much at the primer seating and definitely not looking at the primer brand.
82boy, what do I need to look in more detail on that cold fire situation? I can pull the bullets off the shell to see if the primer did go off at all. I will pull my firepin out and if I have another one (i think i do) i will replace it. I dont want to replace too many things as I want to make sure I find the culprit...
Thanks y'all!

[Nandy]

I could not see any difference on the 2 firepins other than the one I am having FTF was "pitted" and it would measure from .067 to .069 while the other firepin was a solid .066. Change it and set it up as http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php?143-Firing-Pin-Protrusion-Data indicates. Will shoot friday but not many loads... we shall see..

[stangfish]

Two other things to look at Nandy. Firing pin spring tension and or preload. Also make sure the cross pin is indexed with the hole on axis.

good luck

[M_Trivette]

Double check you aren't contaminating primers during the storage or reloading process. (Adding oil to finished bullets has caused such things to happen)
I know this may not be said for most reloaders but I like to begin with the simple things first.

good luck
Michael

[Nandy]

Firing pin spring tension and or preload. Also make sure the cross pin is indexed with the hole on axis.

good luck

I not sure if there is a way to measure the spring that I can do. I did set it up so the spring is compressed to 2.6 as in mentioned in the article. What I do to make sure the cross pin is indexed right is to make sure I here it bottoming out when I flipflop the bolt without the BAS installed. If I turn the bolt facing down and I can see the fire ping come out of the bolthead then I call it good after a few cycles of that. Is there a better way to do this? I am hopping it was the irregular fire pin head, that is the only thing I can see that is not "perfect".

Michael, I tend not to touch the primers, they go from the package I buy them to the primer tray without me touching them at all. Brass has been cleaned with a comercial brass cleaning solution and dry on air. Usually they have been dried for days before I load them. All of these primers are brand new (as I bought them in the last 2 months) and 2 different brands and those between the same brand are different batches. They all get stores inside the house in my reloading bench drawers where I have all the dies. Powders go in a different drawer. That makes me feel fairly sure they are not contaminated but nothing is 100%. I will look at them with my magnifier next time I have a bath in ready for priming. I will look and clean my priming tool, that might be it...

Funny thing is I have tried in the past to kill primers. I used water, 123 oil, some other oil, wd40 and carburetor cleaner and none of that killed those primers... I still have a batch of primers I took out of brass that I dont want to use and I dont have the heart to throw in the trash because I dont seem to find a way to kill them and they soot the crap out of the gun you shoot them from.... But of course, with my luck I will find out it is my priming tool contaminating the primers!!! lol!

[stangfish]

One more idea. Check your overtravel on your trigger. Not enough and the sear drags possibly slowing down the pin.

[Nandy]

okay, I will double check that but I had the same problem with the oem trigger and the sss trigger it has now. I rather things plain breaks than stuff like this...