about annealing brass?

[Westcliffe01]

You are entitled to do however you wish with your money and time.

But lets face a few facts:
Have you ever seen ammo, brass or other components as expensive or as hard to find as now ? In times past, ammo was so cheap plenty of people wouldn't even bother to pick up their brass, and shooting 1000 rounds of ammo in a day was no problem.

Are you better off financially today than 10 or 20 years ago ? Are you or your kids better able to afford college, a car or a home compared to then ? The fact is that we are becoming poorer and out money is becoming worth less every day, and there are now a few billion Indians and Chinese wanting the same steel, copper and aluminum, not to mention fuel and power than we do.

I think the trend in annealing brass is a reaction to the financial, scarcity and performance issues that have been alluded to. it is no longer so comfortable just throwing away brass that is over $1 (up to nearly $3) per shell. We also expect it to perform as good on the next firing as the last.

If you can afford to chuck your brass when it is no longer workable (and that may be after 2, 3 or 4 firings depending on caliber, load etc) then good for you.


well im not here to argue but there are occaisions i think its ok to challenge. being somewhat elderly has few advantages. but one is hindsite. there have always been great shooters. yes the equiptment we have today is certainly better than ever. that means there are more of us able to do things only the best were able to do in years past. fact is many of the 1000yd shooters never annealed cases. that includes the man who held the 10 shot world record for 14 years untill about 2 years ago. i dont think i or anyone is saying its a waste of time dont do it.

[TC260]

I'm not so sure about the quenching being of no consequence. Usually with non ferrous materials, one quenches to keep material soft, whereas with steel one quenches to keep it hard. Slow cooling with non ferrous alloys usually promotes what is called precipitation hardening which involves a particular type of grain growth that occurs during slow cooling.

If there's a need to control grain growth, the brass got way too hot. The specific reason for using tempilaq and keeping temperatures low is to prevent changes to the grain structure.

[Westcliffe01]

The 6mmbr web page goes into some detail on that, which I had not been aware of previously. I will have to see how the batch of brass does which I "tray annealed". So far it has shot fine with excellent repeatability. Since it is 308, I am guessing I probably have another 2 rounds to go before it will need to be annealed and the shoulder bumped back.

[TC260]

The 6mmbr web page goes into some detail on that, which I had not been aware of previously.

I don't know how they were discussing grain growth but it was probably over-simplified to the point that the technicalities were a little fuzzy. In order to get grain growth in the first place, the brass would has to be brought up to melting temperature (~900F) for the grain structure to break down so that it could then be "regrown" as it were. Do you know happen to know off-hand which article it is?

[Westcliffe01]

http://http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

But I think you misunderstood what I said. I was the one who believed the stuff about grain growth and that was contradicted by the 6mmbr article (which I would put more faith in).

There is also a pretty detailed article here http://bisonballistics.com/articles/the-science-of-cartridge-brass-annealing which disputes the risks of "over annealing" unless you anneal the base of the cartridge.

[yobuck]

You are entitled to do however you wish with your money and time.

But lets face a few facts:
Have you ever seen ammo, brass or other components as expensive or as hard to find as now ? In times past, ammo was so cheap plenty of people wouldn't even bother to pick up their brass, and shooting 1000 rounds of ammo in a day was no problem.

Are you better off financially today than 10 or 20 years ago ? Are you or your kids better able to afford college, a car or a home compared to then ? The fact is that we are becoming poorer and out money is becoming worth less every day, and there are now a few billion Indians and Chinese wanting the same steel, copper and aluminum, not to mention fuel and power than we do.

I think the trend in annealing brass is a reaction to the financial, scarcity and performance issues that have been alluded to. it is no longer so comfortable just throwing away brass that is over $1 (up to nearly $3) per shell. We also expect it to perform as good on the next firing as the last.

If you can afford to chuck your brass when it is no longer workable (and that may be after 2, 3 or 4 firings depending on caliber, load etc) then good for you.

well now were talking a different situation. i totaly agree with all you just said. this country is going to hell and seemingly nobody cares.
can we keep it going long enough for me to get my 30 year pension and bennies seems to be the important issue for all to many.
but thats a whole nuther debate. this one was about we cant shoot good groups unless we anneal our brass.
i do intend to start annealing for the exact reasons you site. i have no illusions about it making me a better shooter however. im not gonna be annealing 500 223s to take on a prairie dog hunt. and guess what also, i aint trickeling the powder either.

[Westcliffe01]

Not for want of duplication, but shot these groups today with LC12 brass that I neck annealed after finding 2% split necks on UNFIRED brass. That suggests that the brass was not adequately annealed before the factory formed the necks in the first place.

I used the "primitive" cookie tin stand the case in water process and it seems to be working out for me.

First group
http://www.fotoshack.us/fotos/69355175smk-01.JPG

Last group
http://www.fotoshack.us/fotos/11583175smk-02.JPG

Bench rest shooters use custom chamber reamers and neck turned brass so that the brass only has 0.001" clearance for loading and so basically the necks are unable to expand out of their elastic range to begin with. So brass life for benchrest shooters has very little to do with brass life out of factory rifles...

[TC260]

http://http://www.6mmbr.com/annealing.html

But I think you misunderstood what I said. I was the one who believed the stuff about grain growth and that was contradicted by the 6mmbr article (which I would put more faith in).

There is also a pretty detailed article here http://bisonballistics.com/articles/...rass-annealing which disputes the risks of "over annealing" unless you anneal the base of the cartridge.

Sorry about that. I probably just got confused about who said what. Both articles have excellent information about the actual process of recovery annealing brass. Some of the discussion about the grain structure is true but there's a lot more to story than what's presented and that's perfectly reasonable. They're how-to articles not textbooks.

[acemisser]

To date I have watched and stuided videa and pictures of brass
annealing. In all they look like they are annealing the complete
mouth of the case down to and including the shoulder.
I thought the process was to JUST do the case mouth,where the bullet
goes in. Seems to me that they way they are doing this,might cause the
body to get over heated as well...IF you not doing them in the water
bath..I usually spin mine in a socket with a battery operated drill.
Am I doing it all wrong or should the whole thing be heated as it
is showing in the videa's,etc....Thanks for more info. on this if possible..

I fail to see why the shoulder has to be heated as well,or like I say
am I missing something here?

[Westcliffe01]

Do you want to bump the shoulder on work hardened brass ?

Usually one anneals after 3-4 firings and it is just as good as hammering the brass every time a round is fired. The reason the shoulder typically needs to get bumped is because of the work hardening making it hard to chamber. It certainly does no harm to soften the shoulder since what follows annealing is usually the shoulder bump or a full length sizing operation.

I have so far not found anyone making a body die for 6.5x284, nor a collet die to just size the necks. So that Lapua and Norma brass will probably get annealed every 3rd firing and then get full length sized. I wish that was not required, but can't see any other option right now.

[stangfish]

Again. When the brass starts getting to a point where annealing is required the shoulder will loose the ability to be bumped back in a consistent way. It will become "springy". You dont have to do it this way, but you will not begin to realize the benefits unless you do. This was covered in #11 and 14 posts.