fire forming load--243AI 87grn bullet??

[devildogandboy]

anyone have any fire forming loads for the 243AI using a 87grn bullet????
thnks in advance for any help!!

Bruce

[87predator]

I had good luck with an 87 gr berger with 38 gr varget. After forming I pushed that load to 41 gr.

[scope eye]

What powder do you have on hand?

[devildogandboy]

I have varget, imr 4831, imr 4064, imr 4895 and h4831sc.

[scope eye]

I would use full cases of the 4831, that would be a good way saving of saving your SC -4064 and Varget, for when you want to start taking advantage of your AI case, and anyways I have always found that slower powders fire form more uniform and consistent.

Dean

[devildogandboy]

are we talking about filling up to the base of the neck? i'm also seating the bullets into the lands.

[scope eye]

Yes a full case, 4831 compresses real easy.

Dean

[scope eye]

If you are not comfortable with that just fill it to the neck, it will still be fine, and dont kid yourself there is no reason not to get good groupings while fireforming, it is also a good time to observe bullet drop and other things you might want to try, fireforming does have a lot of redeeming uses.

Dean

[devildogandboy]

I will have to try this load, after all I have quite a bit of the imr 4831 and not much use for it anymore. I filled one up to the neck and the charge weighed 46 grns. i'll see what happens and report back.

thanks for the info and help.
Bruce

I also removed the ejector just to eliminate any other problems with fire forming. I heard this was best.

[Westcliffe01]

I have found that using a maximum load for a 243 cartridge is a good fireforming and hunting load in the Ackley chamber. It cannot develop full pressure as it would in a "regular chamber" due to the brass expansion, but has a good amount of speed anyhow.

Since throat life is limited, I strongly suggest you use a fireforming load that shoots well and use it for hunting and shooting, and not "just" to form the brass. Develop the load just like any other since you will be going through a lot of them.

Whats the benefit of removing the extractor ? How do you get the shell out the chamber ? If you are going to drive them out 1 by 1 that may cause more damage to your barrel than you might like. I think this is a bad idea. Just shoot the fireforming loads, period. My 95gr Berger is going over 3200fps in my fireforming load.

[devildogandboy]

I meant the ejector, sorry about that.

[scope eye]

Every one of the 20 different calibers that I load, with no exceptions from my fastest or most accurate or sometimes they are both the same load, all have the same thing in common, they are all compressed loads, I find it is better to use more of a slower powder, than less of a faster powder, I wish that wasn't the case other wise, I would load every thing with Trail Boss and get almost 500 loads per pound.

Dean

[bobcat30]

Use blue dot fill case with cream of wheat and top off with soap or wax forms beautifully with out burning up barrel life

[devildogandboy]

sorry to take so long to get back to this thread but I forgot I had it posted. I did get out and fireformed the 127 cases I had laying around and used all three of the above mentioned loads to fireform.

87predator, I tried the "varget" load and it seemed to work okay but I think I would need to up the charge to get the same effect as the other two loads. the cases didn't come out as defined as the other 2 methods.

scope eye, tried the "full case" method with the 4831 and all came out well formed and very crisp(well defined). liked this method. I used some 87grn bullets I had sitting around and I was surprised that they shot better than I expected. I was thinking I would have to use a heavier bullet like the 105-107's to get any type of grouping. these were around 1 3/4 at 100 yds. for fireforming I guess that's pretty good. I plan on using the heavier bullets for the fireformed rounds being the barrel has an 8twist.

bobcat30, used this method but substituted 11.5grns of unique and TP paper since I didn't have any blue dot or wax, worked very well. I liked this method but it's time consuming, best to do when there is nothing else planned. I like the fact that there is no barrel wear and if I get hungry I have a box of Cream of Wheat in the cabinet!(LOL)

would like to thank you guys for the ideas and help, much appreciated!

Bruce

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[scope eye]

Hey Bruce glad it worked out for you, just one thing some have you mentioned, that fireforming without sending a bullet down the barrel does not wear out the barrel, that could not be further from the truth, they only thing you are not wearing out is the rifling, and the rifling in the barrel is probably good for 5000 to 10000 rounds, what you are wearing out is the throat, and wearing it out faster than if you ran a bullet threw it, due to the fact that the throat is getting a straight shot powder burn, with no bullet to buffer it, I have seen throats start to erode at 100 forming's and some totally shot at 200, I know some one will chime in and say, my uncles cousin brother in law fireformed 914 rounds and the throat was better than when new, you can take that chance I'm not, and like you said you were still able to enjoy shooting and the brass came out nicer, just thought you might like to know.

Dean

[87predator]

I also looked into the COW method, but found out my fire form loads were pretty accurate, and used them in the field for early coyotes, pdogs, and just shooting targets. I figure any practice is good practice. When you get some loads worked out let us know. I ran out of 87 bergers and since then have made one using the 95s with 4831sc and will try some 105s this weekend if I can make it to the range.

[devildogandboy]

scope eye,I didn't know that about the throat erosion, now I do. guess I will be fireforming from now on with projectiles! it's more fun anyway and a lot quicker than stuffing powder, COW and paper into the case.

87predator, I will post some results as I get them, may take some time as I kinda jump between calibers depending what I have bullets and powder for.