.25-06 twist rates

[scope eye]

Fliers have a lot more to do with they ammo, than the rifle,

Dean

[flatshooter]

Fliers have a lot more to do with they ammo, than the rifle,

Dean

And let the debate begin....LOL

I shot my handloads I loaded for my mauser that shot really well out of the M70 and a possible flier, my friends rifle, when he shot my ammo he didn't get any.... he shoots better than me. 3 shots at 1/2 inch dead on at 100 yards. I really believe the quality of the rifle means alot and the shooter second. I didn't have to try hard at all with how I normally shoot. I believe the shot high was coz I didn't follow through. Like I said it was my loads in his rifle and I couldn't believe how much better it shot. And as far as Savages shooting great stock, I'm sure it will shoot alot better, with an aftermarket barrel. Like you said...


but if me and you would of had a little chit chat, we would have made that barrel cry uncle and fix its non cooperating attitude, LOL

I should of held on to my model 10 with the McGowen 1:12... now that I have you guys for a resource I can troubleshoot my mistakes.


I consider me not following through the culprit of the shot a little high...


http://s649.photobucket.com/user/chucksniper/media/SANY0040_zps796a6658.jpg.html#/user/chucksniper/media/SANY0040_zps796a6658.jpg.html?&_suid=1370878507517033532326455539624

[fgw_in_fla]

Fliers have a lot more to do with they ammo, than the rifle,

Dean

Take from those of us "in the know"....
It's the ammo. I pondered this for months & decided to stop cleaning the inside neck part of my brass. One quick pass with a brush and that's it. No more "shiny clean". The bullet was sticking to the brass when I shined it.
No more flyers. Usually.

[TC260]

10 with 80-90 grainers or a 12 with 60 -70 grainers? And out to 500 -600 yards. Logic tells me 10 with 80-90 grainers and anything heavier would take an 8 twist futher out beyond 600... Am I correct?

I apologize for being blunt but no, it's not correct. I'm pretty sure I know why you're uncertain about a 10t being sufficient but instead of me guessing at it, explain why you feel it's insufficient and then we can get to the bottom of it.

[flatshooter]

I apologize for being blunt but no, it's not correct. I'm pretty sure I know why you're uncertain about a 10t being sufficient but instead of me guessing at it, explain why you feel it's insufficient and then we can get to the bottom of it.



explain why you feel it's insufficient

The 1:10... the 10 is a general twist to handle all bullet weights. The slower twists such as 11 12 14 and slower, depending on the caliber, handles lighter bullets depending weight for a perticular caliber. Fast twists 9, 8, 7, handles heavier longer bullets. This is what I understood from explainations form various barrel, bullet, rifle manufactures. But as I said above depending on the caliber twists rates vary. I've always seen 10 as a general twist for medium to big game hunting rifles and one good example was the 6mm remington with a 1:12 that couldn't stabilize heavier bullets verses the .243 winchester that is barreled 1:10 that handles heaiver bullets which caused the 6mm to fall off the wayside popularity wise.

So is the .25-06 is an exception with the 1:10 and are there other calibers that shoot well with the 10...?

[flatshooter]

Take from those of us "in the know"....
It's the ammo. I pondered this for months & decided to stop cleaning the inside neck part of my brass. One quick pass with a brush and that's it. No more "shiny clean". The bullet was sticking to the brass when I shined it.
No more flyers. Usually.

My buddy told me no matter what ammo he shoots in his M70 it shoots phenomenal, and believe me when I tell you, he is not in the least a picky handloader. FL size, prime it, charge it, seat it, shoots it.

I see what you mean about a pressure spike though from a "sticky" bullet.. I wouldn't doubt that... some crimped factory ammo shoots great to elimate pressure spikes.

[stangfish]

The 1:10... the 10 is a general twist to handle all bullet weights.

Thats not exactly correct. Twist rates are not hapenstance.

[flatshooter]

I must be missing something then.... what is it?

[stangfish]

I realise you are drawing me into this and you know the old rule about arguing, but... My buddy told me to look up Miller Twist Rule and Bowmans equation. An algorithm is used to determine what twist rate a given caliber bullet with a given overall length will stabilise.

If you used a 250 grain bullet in a 25-06 you might be able to make use of a 5 twist, but the tip of the bullet might be hanging out the end of the barrel before it cleared the neck.

Just currious do you have an idea how many rotations a bullet is making per second(RPM/60) with an 8 twist moving 3500 fps?

[flatshooter]

I'm not trying to draw you into anything, and my intention is not to argue with you. I'm trying to find out, where you get your information from, other than, what it seems to me as, trial and error. The information you gave above seems like the right answers.... nailing a chuck at 600 yards is one thing, and shooting groups the size of under a dime is another. I like both... more so what it does on paper. I don't hunt chcuks any more, so targets is what I do. The rifle i want to barrel is strictly for target and maybe one of these days varmint.

In my experience a 10 does all.... guess the bottom line is this,

I am really trying not to argue with you but to understand the process that's all.


An algorithm is used to determine what twist rate a given caliber bullet with a given overall length will stabilise.


so based upon the above statement....



I'm confused with this because 10 12 14 is common with other calibers.... so where does this formula fall into the "given caliber bullet"?

[stangfish]

your last response didn't help. Care to expound...?

On?

[scope eye]

OK I will, you take your muzzle velocity, lets say 3500 FPS X 720 = 2,520,000 then divide by twist rate 8 = 315,000 rpm, which is very high maybe even high enough to vaporize the bullet as soon as they exit the barrel, 200,000 on the low side and 250,000 on the high side are the standards for bullet rpm, and that is our lesson for today class you are dismissed.

Thanks Dean

[TC260]

Flatshooter, I started to post a lengthy response to explain stability in a different way but here's a stability calculator to play with instead:
http://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi

and an explanation of terms:
http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballistics/calculators/help/stab/stab_exp.shtml

[flatshooter]

got it... that stabiltiy site I used before just forgot about it.

[stangfish]

http://iptrolltracker2.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/patent_troll_2.jpg

[flatshooter]

didn't mean for you to get sore fish....

[flatshooter]

The reason LR shooters use faster twists isn't because of the distance they're shooting but because they're using long high BC bullets that need faster twists to stabilize. There may be some custom bullets out there that are longer but at least amongst factory offerings, I'm not aware of any 25 cal bullets long enough to need anything faster than a 10t.

Sorry that was my point, 8 twist to stabilize longer bullets... for long range... heavier bullets maintaining energy and velocity.

[scope eye]

Flat shooter this how I was able to shoot they 105s after rechambering to an AI

243 12 twist 105 Amax's 3100 fps X 720 div 12 = 186,000 rpm, to low
243 AI 12 twist 105 Amax's 3400 fps X 720 div 12 =204,000 rpm, in the low end of the range, but still in the zone and got the job done.

Hope this clears that up.

Dean

[scope eye]

Sorry that was my point, 8 twist to stabilize longer bullets... for long range... heavier bullets maintaining energy and velocity.

Yes true but they arc like a rainbow.LOL

Dean

[flatshooter]

Flat shooter this how I was able to shoot they 105s after rechambering to an AI

243 12 twist 105 Amax's 3100 fps X 720 div 12 = 186,000 rpm, to low
243 AI 12 twist 105 Amax's 3400 fps X 720 div 12 =204,000 rpm, in the low end of the range, but still in the zone and got the job done.

Hope this clears that up.

Dean

yeah it does.... and JBM's site does. So twist rate doesn't really matter as long as you are in the range of 10......... at high velocity for 12t until you get into long bearing surface heavier bullets then 8 or faster.