More 17 Hornet blues

[XNAVYORDIE]

Hey all,

I joined here tonight to research the demons of my newly acquired M25 17 Hornet. I chased this rifle for months and finally found one. The bolt was "rough" from the start. Smooth until you pulled the trigger. Then it was rough to pull/rotate. Took it to the range and it was N-A-S-T-Y in the functionality department. First round fed under that "sleeve/tube" protruding from chamber. Had to clear that and hand feed into the chamber. Fired, and the bolt was locked shut! It took an act of you know who to get that bolt up and pulled back.....and the spent case was still in the chamber....I went through this enough to get it dialed in.....which at 100yds this thing was dead nuts accurate! But a very disappointing day to hand feed it every shot!

I took it out last weekend and the first round I attempted to jack in....yup....mis-feed.....but the first G'Hog the crosshairs were set on was killed at 137 yds with 15-20mph winds.

No complaints with accuracy or handling......but man oh man how did this thing ever pass the QA inspectors? Now I'm here and see a lot of others with the same issues. I'm on another predator hunting forum and there are several on there that found/purchased a M25 17 Hornet and are in the same boat.

Shame on Savage.......very poor quality assurance integrity.

[rjtfroggy]

I have the rifle that these replaced the model 40 22 hornet. It is a single feed model but it only extracts if I'm lucky 1 out of 10 rounds(can't go to range with out a rod). It has been back to the factory and the problem persist. As far as accuracy maybe a 1 1/4" @ 100 on a good day.
My next step is to lightly polish the chamber to see if it will help the extraction problems and then try different loads for the accuracy issue.
My only advice is to contact Savage send it back and hope for the best. Their CS is fantastic and turn around time is around 2 weeks.

[Orange_Crush]

Yep, been there, done that. I hated mine at first - sent it back with a laundry list of complaints. Got it back with everything up to snuff. It certainly does seem like it would be easier and cheaper for them to get it right the first time.

[XNAVYORDIE]

Yep. I'm giving it one more chance at the range. At home I can feed and cycle the rounds (safety on/not firing) in and out flawlessly....I get to the range or G'hog field and the very first round will jack up and not feed.....safety on or not. Weird.

[plinkin]

I have the rifle that these replaced the model 40 22 hornet. It is a single feed model but it only extracts if I'm lucky 1 out of 10 rounds(can't go to range with out a rod). It has been back to the factory and the problem persist. As far as accuracy maybe a 1 1/4" @ 100 on a good day.
My next step is to lightly polish the chamber to see if it will help the extraction problems and then try different loads for the accuracy issue.
My only advice is to contact Savage send it back and hope for the best. Their CS is fantastic and turn around time is around 2 weeks.

I have had a "few" (literally just a few) hard to extract rounds in my M40. They were all with Prvi Partizan ammo. What I found was that those particular cases were just a bit long. That rifle is VERY ammo sensitive.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/capri331/Shooting/Savage/M40/Photo0383_zpsf06f59e7.jpg
Remington 45gr HP 50yd (buck shot @ 100yd)

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/capri331/Shooting/Savage/M40/Photo0384_zpsebcc0f70.jpg
Prvi 45gr 50yd

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/capri331/Shooting/Savage/M40/Photo0385_zps746061bc.jpg

Hornady 35gr Vmax 50yd

I can't wait to try the 35gr on some 'chucks but I forgot where I put the remaining 22 rounds of it.
It sounds stupid but we had a minor emergency that day when the kids came home and when I got home
I swear I put the ammo back in the storage area but I can't find it and I haven't had time to load any.

I know some have had issues with their M40's but mine is lethal even with ammo that doesn't group well.

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/capri331/Shooting/Savage/M40/98yards_zpsa7fc7b45.jpg

98yd Prvi 45gr

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/capri331/Shooting/Savage/M40/189yards_zps1b10dff5.jpg

189yd same ammo

[plinkin]

Yep. I'm giving it one more chance at the range. At home I can feed and cycle the rounds (safety on/not firing) in and out flawlessly....I get to the range or G'hog field and the very first round will jack up and not feed.....safety on or not. Weird.

Both my M25's are the same, .204 & .17 & they don't like to feed rounds when the mags are full. I only load 2 rounds at a time. I will say the 17H seems worse though.

[XNAVYORDIE]

Even if I load only 1 or 2 in the mag it may feed a bit easier but it still locks up after the round is fired. Something is very wrong with some of the M25's and its hard to beleive they passed any type of Quality Control inspection by Savage Arms.

I love the feel, balance and acuracy of the M25 17Hornet. Last week I was nailing Ghogs at 200+ yards.......but trying a follow-up shot on a running hog from prone or sitting is impossible. It takes a considerable amount of pull to extract the case after firing.

[Big Old Boy]

glad I did not find one now. I'll get a ruger.

[plinkin]

glad I did not find one now. I'll get a Ruger.

If the 17 Hornet Rugers are anything like the 22 Hornet Rugers you will want to rethink that idea. Some of the Savage 25's have had issues, not all of them. My issues I was able to solve.

[demolitionman]

I had a 6.5 creed made by Savage. I spent over 2 months tinkering with it and "jerry smithing" it just to get it to feed rounds off the mag as well. I ended up having to file the feed ramp, bend the feed lips on the mag, and polish out the chamber. Fired brass was getting stuck and not able to be removed without hammering the bolt with a block of wood, and might I add this was on stock off the shelf ammo as well as light hand loads. I got it running now, but what a pita. I almost sent it back to Savage. The gun however prints 1/2 moa all day long at all distances. Awesome rifle now, but the growing pains and smithing curve sure sucked.

[davemuzz]

Well, guys.....my Model 25 is very accurate using my reloads and H-335 and Berger 25gr bullets. So, in the accuracy department.....I got no complaints at all. The sticky bolt on extraction....yup....I had that to start with, but what seemed to clear that up was a few dabs of lithium grease on the bolt parts that rubbed together. Now, my only issue left seems to be the cartridge feed into the chamber.

Initially I had alignment problems with the Berger bullets. The Hornady's aligned fine and fed OK, but the Bergers just did not hit the chamber. So, I took a small file and filed a small amount of plastic from the magazine feed lips until the berger bullet cleared the guns receiver. However, now what seems to happen is somewhere after that, the neck of the brass (or I should say the rim of the brass) seems to be hanging up on the chamber. I have to work the bolt a few times to get the cartridge to feed. Not on every one, but at least 2 out of three. And that's 2 of 3 too many.

As for waiting for a Ruger or CZ, those are going to cost you a minimum of $800. Or even more. Nice rifles, but at the end of the summer of 2013, my Savage and your Ruger or CZ won't be shooting any smaller groups or functioning any better than my Savage. True, I had some pains with it.....but when It's all over.....it's all over.

Dave

[plinkin]

Well, guys.....my Model 25 is very accurate using my reloads and H-335 and Berger 25gr bullets. So, in the accuracy department.....I got no complaints at all. The sticky bolt on extraction....yup....I had that to start with, but what seemed to clear that up was a few dabs of lithium grease on the bolt parts that rubbed together. Now, my only issue left seems to be the cartridge feed into the chamber.

Initially I had alignment problems with the Berger bullets. The Hornady's aligned fine and fed OK, but the Bergers just did not hit the chamber. So, I took a small file and filed a small amount of plastic from the magazine feed lips until the berger bullet cleared the guns receiver. However, now what seems to happen is somewhere after that, the neck of the brass (or I should say the rim of the brass) seems to be hanging up on the chamber. I have to work the bolt a few times to get the cartridge to feed. Not on every one, but at least 2 out of three. And that's 2 of 3 too many.

As for waiting for a Ruger or CZ, those are going to cost you a minimum of $800. Or even more. Nice rifles, but at the end of the summer of 2013, my Savage and your Ruger or CZ won't be shooting any smaller groups or functioning any better than my Savage. True, I had some pains with it.....but when It's all over.....it's all over.

Dave

When I mentioned my M25 feed issues to Andrew at Savage CS he said if I send the mad in he could replace it for me. I am more inclined to buy a second mag to see if that is it. I have been thinking of taking the bolt apart on both 25's and look for burs & polish it then a light coat of Gun Butter or the other lube I recently purchased.

Have you tried Lil'Gun Dave? Also did you use the Berger 25gr because you had them or because you wanted a slightly heavier bullet?

[davemuzz]

Plinkin,

I didn't take my bolt apart when I applied the grease. I just dabbed some on where the bolt was rubbing against the internal "stuff" as I figured that's where the issue probably was anyway. I suppose if you pull the bolt apart and study it you could figure out where it needs some polishing and have it smoothed out faster.

As for trying Lil'Gun, no. I have not tried it. I went right to H-335 as that's what I used for loading my .17 Fireball with great accuracy success, and as for the bullet weight, again, I used the 25gr. Berger's because I had them, they proved very accurate in the Fireball, and again, proved accurate in the Hornet using H-335. I also loaded up the Berger 20gr. and they proved very accurate using H-335 as well. I like a hevier 25gr. bullet in the .17 caliber. BTW, for the 25gr. Berger I chronyed them at an average of 3032fps from the Hornet.

[demolitionman]

Dave, if you work the bolt really slow, it probably "pops" the round out of the mag up into the upper left entry Area of chamber at which point the round then loses contact with the boltface and then subsequently jams itself, falls back down, then you run the bolt one more time to finish chambering it right? I've had 2 Savages do this. I'm unfamiliar with your model but if it has a detach mag, buy a new mag and try again. Otherwise your gonna have to play the bend mag lips game until you get it right. For stuck rounds, a bit of flitz on a bore mop ran off a die grinder fixed my case sticking issues

[plinkin]

Dave, if you work the bolt really slow, it probably "pops" the round out of the mag up into the upper left entry Area of chamber at which point the round then loses contact with the bolt face and then subsequently jams itself, falls back down, then you run the bolt one more time to finish clambering it right? I've had 2 Savages do this. I'm unfamiliar with your model but if it has a detach mag, buy a new mag and try again. Otherwise your gonna have to play the bend mag lips game until you get it right. For stuck rounds, a bit of flitz on a bore mop ran off a die grinder fixed my case sticking issues

That is pretty much what both my 25's do.

[plinkin]

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b203/capri331/Shooting/Savage/M25/17HH/SAM_8846_zps2ab475a4.jpg

This is how mine now shoots with factory ammo. The 2 shot group on the right was then adjusted one click right. The shot right of center was the final shot. Just over an inch high at 100yd.

[demolitionman]

Plinkin, that little thig hammers! Nice

[davemuzz]

Dave, if you work the bolt really slow, it probably "pops" the round out of the mag up into the upper left entry Area of chamber at which point the round then loses contact with the boltface and then subsequently jams itself, falls back down, then you run the bolt one more time to finish chambering it right? I've had 2 Savages do this. I'm unfamiliar with your model but if it has a detach mag, buy a new mag and try again. Otherwise your gonna have to play the bend mag lips game until you get it right. For stuck rounds, a bit of flitz on a bore mop ran off a die grinder fixed my case sticking issues

Well.....I hear what your saying....except on this model 25 the magazine is plastic as are the feed lips. What I had to do to get the Berger's to feed (the Hornady's fed fine as they had a nice pointy rubber tip) was to file\remove some plastic under the magazine feed lips so the nose of the bullet would stick up just a few thousands more. The Berger's, otherwise, just "slammed" into the receiver and with enough force, I would shove the bullet into the brass....and make it a very, very bad situation.

But, it feeds right into the chamber....but it appears that the mouth of the brass is getting hung up on something. (I have yet to take a flashlight and peer into the depths of the hither-too unknown darkness of said M-25 chamber).

But it can't be brain surgery. And that's good 'cause I'm not a brain surgeon.

Dave

[plinkin]

Plinkin, that little thig hammers! Nice It'll do

[plinkin]

But it can't be brain surgery. And that's good 'cause I'm not a brain surgeon.

Dave

Hehe