B MAG torture

[Willy]

"Willy I have no issues dispatching large woodchucks with my HMR at out to 180 yards. Shot placement does help though.

Have you called Savage to ask how much the camo stock is?"

No, I haven't called Savage; maybe I will. I was thinking of aftermarket Boyd stocks, when they set up an outlet in Canada. Right now shipping from S Dakota is around $50.

[redmister]

I picked mine up yesterday at Cabela's and also scored the last box of ammo in the store.

[plinkin]

"Willy I have no issues dispatching large woodchucks with my HMR at out to 180 yards. Shot placement does help though.

Have you called Savage to ask how much the camo stock is?"

No, I haven't called Savage; maybe I will. I was thinking of aftermarket Boyd stocks, when they set up an outlet in Canada. Right now shipping from S Dakota is around $50.

Boyds doesn't make a stock yet for the M25

[plinkin]

I picked mine up yesterday at Cabela's and also scored the last box of ammo in the store.

I drove 2.5 hours to pick up one at a gun shop and 3 boxes of ammo. I was there for 2 hours and then finally left without it. Change of heart I guess.

[maximo]

I pick up my new Savage B MAG tomorrow. I bought it at a small gun store in the valley and got 8 boxes of Winchester 17 Super Magnum ammo at Bass Pro in Modesto, Ca. last week.

Frank

[plinkin]

I pick up my new Savage B MAG tomorrow. I bought it at a small gun store in the valley and got 8 boxes of Winchester 17 Super Magnum ammo at Bass Pro in Modesto, Ca. last week.

Frank

What did you get for ammo? 20gr or 25gr?

[Poor Shot]

How long does anybody think it will take Savage to make a left-hand B.Mag? I already have a right-hand one coming.

[plinkin]

How long does anybody think it will take Savage to make a left-hand B.Mag? I already have a right-hand one coming.

5 years.
1st will come a heavy barrel, then some type of wood stock, then a lefty and that might only be plastic or wood. That is IF this round gains any real steam.

[Poor Shot]

5 years.
1st will come a heavy barrel, then some type of wood stock, then a lefty and that might only be plastic or wood. That is IF this round gains any real steam.

5 years? I probably won't live that long.

[maximo]

Got 8 boxes of Winchester 17 Super Magnum, 20 gr, Polymer Tip. The Polymer Tip 20 gr bullet looks just like the Hornaday 17 HMR V-MAX bullet only the Hornaday V-Max I shoot is a 17 gr bullet.

Frank

[plinkin]

Got 8 boxes of Winchester 17 Super Magnum, 20 gr, Polymer Tip. The Polymer Tip 20 gr bullet looks just like the Hornaday 17 HMR V-MAX bullet only the Hornaday V-Max I shoot is a 17 gr bullet.

Frank

I have a box of 25gr and if you look on here you will see a picture I took of HMR WSM & 17H together.

[plinkin]

5 years? I probably won't live that long.

Chances are the cartridge will not live that long either.

[missed]

Chances are the cartridge will not live that long either.

I hope it lasts! I like the ballistic numbers and reasonable ammo price something to shoot and not reload. But SAVAGE....hurry up with the varmint barreled lefty!!

[J.Baker]

The cartridge itself should prove to be a winner, but I'm not going to comment on the B-Mag until I get my hands on one. I will say though that I don't care for the looks of it, and I can already tell I'm not going to like the stock just from the diameter and shape of the grip.

However, the #1 thing that's going to make or break the cartridge is who all in the industry ends up supporting it by offering products. The cartridge is proprietary to Ohlin-Winchester, and from my understanding it's very unlikely that they will grant rights to Federal or Remington to offer ammunition for it under their labels - at least for the time being. That's even assuming either has the capabilities to make the ammunition with their current machinery because after all - this cartridge is based off a nail gun case.

On the gun side of things, right now it's just Savage and Winchester and this isn't a cartridge that can simply be chambered in any existing rimfire. Due to the pressures involved and the thickness of the case rim no existing rimfire rifle would stand up to it. The firing pin systems wouldn't have the energy to ignite the round, and even if one magically happened to the receiver/barrel wouldn't be able to withstand the much higher pressure. As such any manufacturer who wants to sell a gun chambered for this round is going to have to design an all new one from the ground up the same as Savage and Winchester have (note the Winchester 1885 Low Wall was originally designed as a centerfire offered under the Browning nameplate and chambered in .22 Hornet and .223 Rem, .243 Win and .260 Rem).

In short I think the 2014/2015 SHOT Shows will determine the outcome of the 17 WSM. What manufacturers show up with new rifles designed specifically for the cartridge will dictate whether it ends up being a short-lived flop like the 17 Mach 2 or a long-term hit and future staple like the 17 HMR.

[plinkin]

The cartridge itself should prove to be a winner, but I'm not going to comment on the B-Mag until I get my hands on one. I will say though that I don't care for the looks of it, and I can already tell I'm not going to like the stock just from the diameter and shape of the grip.

However, the #1 thing that's going to make or break the cartridge is who all in the industry ends up supporting it by offering products. The cartridge is proprietary to Ohlin-Winchester, and from my understanding it's very unlikely that they will grant rights to Federal or Remington to offer ammunition for it under their labels - at least for the time being. That's even assuming either has the capabilities to make the ammunition with their current machinery because after all - this cartridge is based off a nail gun case.

On the gun side of things, right now it's just Savage and Winchester and this isn't a cartridge that can simply be chambered in any existing rimfire. Due to the pressures involved and the thickness of the case rim no existing rimfire rifle would stand up to it. The firing pin systems wouldn't have the energy to ignite the round, and even if one magically happened to the receiver/barrel wouldn't be able to withstand the much higher pressure. As such any manufacturer who wants to sell a gun chambered for this round is going to have to design an all new one from the ground up the same as Savage and Winchester have (note the Winchester 1885 Low Wall was originally designed as a centerfire offered under the Browning nameplate and chambered in .22 Hornet and .223 Rem, .243 Win and .260 Rem).

In short I think the 2014/2015 SHOT Shows will determine the outcome of the 17 WSM. What manufacturers show up with new rifles designed specifically for the cartridge will dictate whether it ends up being a short-lived flop like the 17 Mach 2 or a long-term hit and future staple like the 17 HMR.

I believe this cartridge is short lived. If Win is going to keep it their own, and I talked to Hornady and they have no plans on manufacturing them yet, then it will flop like the 5mm Rem Mag RF. The 5mm lasted in production for 5 years (69-73) when Remington stopped building rifles for it. They were short sighted with their 2 models, the 591 & 592, and their proprietary round. This is what WILL happen IF the B.Mag and the $1500 Winchester are the only 2 rifles out there AND if only Winchester makes the ammo. The internet will help and hurt this product.

We have had 11 years of the HMR and many many manufacturers make rifles and handguns for it, yes it is indeed a success story.

By no means is the HM2 / Mach II a flop. 9 years in production and there are still rifles being chambered in it. Granted it is over shadowed by its bigger brother but it is in no way giving up the ghost anytime soon. Even if it died today there would still be ammo. A little known fact is that they were experimenting with the HM2 and ended up taming it down because it was quickly approaching HMR speeds and it seemed to be counter productive for marketing. Its interesting to thing a HM2 can easily be safely loaded to exceed 2300fps while the HMR is 2550fps. Makes me wonder what the actual safe possible MAX load could be. Maybe once I get a Chrony I might play a little.

The B.Mag is being said buy some honest buyers and non buyers alike that it appears to be, feels like it is, seems like it is a cheaply made rifle. Where it is cheap, it is CHEAP. Where the money went is into the action and R&D. Basically it is a rim fire Axis. It was designed and build for the masses as is the Axis. After all they sell a heck of a lot more Axis than they do M12 laminate stainless steel 22-250.

The only to rim fire actions I can see handling this 17WSM load is the Savage 40 or the Ruger 77/22 (77/17). The 40 easily handles 22 hornet as does the Ruger handles both 22H & 17H. I don't see me spending the money to have my M40 relined & reamed for 17WSM and then converting a bolt.

I was very gung-ho on the B.Mag but reality is at this point I give it 5 years. If it lasts that long I am willing to bet at the very least 17HM2 ammo will still be available.

I don't see anyone chambering 17WSM if they have not already chambered 17 Hornet. So far Remington is watching 17H and those CZ lovers aren't holding their breath for the 17H.

It's going to be a long row to hoe, a long hill to climb.

~Plinkin~

[J.Baker]

The last "new" cartridges I found exciting and worth getting into were the 17 HMR and .204 Ruger, and my interest in the 204 waned fairly quickly. I'm pretty traditional when it comes to my guns and cartridges, but I'm not against experimenting now and then if something looks promising. In this case the round looks promising to me, but the B-Mag...not so much.

It's too bad Savage discontinued the Stevens Favorite a few years back - a slightly beefed up version of it would have made an interesting little rifle and undercut the Winchester by a significant amount in price. For that matter it would have made a nice Model 24 combo cartridge as well, but nope - they discontinued those as well.

[plinkin]

The last "new" cartridges I found exciting and worth getting into were the 17 HMR and .204 Ruger, and my interest in the 204 waned fairly quickly. I'm pretty traditional when it comes to my guns and cartridges, but I'm not against experimenting now and then if something looks promising. In this case the round looks promising to me, but the B-Mag...not so much.

It's too bad Savage discontinued the Stevens Favorite a few years back - a slightly beefed up version of it would have made an interesting little rifle and undercut the Winchester by a significant amount in price. For that matter it would have made a nice Model 24 combo cartridge as well, but nope - they discontinued those as well.

I don't disagree with you. I do find it interesting, the cartridge. I am a rim fire nut plain & simple. When I saw Taurus was planning on bringing out the Tracker 590 (5mm) I was excited. They dropped it before any real production. I understand why too. I am sure they wouldn't have sold a ton of them, just like they didn't sell a ton of Raging Hornets & Bees compared to the other Raging series and the Judge etc. I don't believe they dropped it because of potential sales.

What don't you like about the .204?

[J.Baker]

What don't you like about the .204?

Wasn't that I didn't like it, I just didn't really see any real benefit it offered to justify having one. Already having a 17 HMR, fast and slow twist .223 Rem's, a fast twist (1-9) 22-250 Rem and a faster twist (1-8) .22-250 Ackley it just didn't fill any niche I didn't already have covered. I also found it to be fairly finicky in terms of reloading.

Good round, just didn't light my fire like I had expected it to.

[plinkin]

Well that is how I feel about the 17WSM. I have a 17HM2, HMR, 22H, 17H & 204R...where does the 17WSM fit? For the longest time I wanted a 22-250 but when I found the 204 I put the 22-250 on hold.

I do not reload the 204 yet but from things I have read, guys posting reviews of the Hornady Superformance ammo, they say they can hand load ammo that shoots as well as Hornady factory but can't get the speed. I would like a M12 in 204 but that'll have to wait.

[Willy]

Plinkin, and anyone else who wishes to join in, what power scope do you use for shooting wood chucks at several hundred yards? I have a 9x on my 17 HMR and I'm beginning to think I could use at least 12x to maybe even 16x on it.