110 seems to shoot smaller groups with flat base rounds ???

[defcon9]

I've only put 53 or 54 rounds down range through this rifle, but so far the 150gr and 180gr standard fare flat based ammo has shot smaller groups than the 165gr and 147 gr boat tails have.

It's a wood stock 30-06 with a 1:10 twist.

I know I need further testing to reach a conclusion, but any thoughts?

Anyone else seen this?

Thanks for all replies!

[jer901]

The best reload for my 110 uses a Sierra 170 grain FN which also has a flat base. It's the same bullet my dad used in his .30-30 hunting loads.

[earl39]

what range are you shooting? The boattails don't really make much difference until you get out to 500 yards or so in the 30 caliber.

[defcon9]

Yep, I was hoping to have some 1000yd + potential with this rifle, but the groups with the boat tails make me think I'll be limited to about 700yds or 800yds with flat based 150gr rounds.

It's putting those in 1/2 moa to 3/4 moa at 100yds and 200yds.

I've only got to shoot it at 100yds since I put the good glass on it though.

The boat tail groups have been about 1-1/2 moa.

[FW Conch]

It has been my experience that flat base bullets shoot tighter groups at 300yds or less. VLD's and other boat tails "start" to come in for me at 300yds. When I put my 260Rem together I wanted to shoot Berger 140grn VLD's. But I also got some Rem PSP"s, 140grn, to use for break in, sight in, load development, etc. They are flat base and "bore riders", the only such bullet that I know of ? Anyway, shooting at 200yds or less, I "could not" get the Berger's to group as well as the Remington's, even with a 1 in 8 twist barrel. It wasn't until I started shooting at 300yds that the Berger's started to tighten up. I have heard it said that boat tails have to "go to sleep"?? Good Shooting..Jim

[defcon9]

It has been my experience that flat base bullets shoot tighter groups at 300yds or less. VLD's and other boat tails "start" to come in for me at 300yds. When I put my 260Rem together I wanted to shoot Berger 140grn VLD's. But I also got some Rem PSP"s, 140grn, to use for break in, sight in, load development, etc. They are flat base and "bore riders", the only such bullet that I know of ? Anyway, shooting at 200yds or less, I "could not" get the Berger's to group as well as the Remington's, even with a 1 in 8 twist barrel. It wasn't until I started shooting at 300yds that the Berger's started to tighten up. I have heard it said that boat tails have to "go to sleep"?? Good Shooting..Jim

Thanks Jim.

So, could I expect the boat tails to come in to sub-moa groups beyond 300yds?

[kuduman]

Thanks Jim.

So, could I expect the boat tails to come in to sub-moa groups beyond 300yds?

No, you can't. It's a geometric expansion. Groups only get worse with distance-- never better. See Brian Litz' work on the subject if interested.

[Pilgrim]

Thanks Jim.

So, could I expect the boat tails to come in to sub-moa groups beyond 300yds?
Well, maybe. You will have to shoot 'em to see. Benchrest shooters typically use flat based bullets out to 200 yards. The term used above -- "go to sleep" -- refers to a long range bullet stabilizing at some distance downrange. Until stable, it can cause groups to open up. Once stable, paradoxically, the groups may get better. I have a Kimber (308) that shoots the same group at 100 and 200 yards.

[J.Baker]

So let me see if I've got this straight...

You're shooting factory loaded ammo, right? That right there is mistake #1 if you're wanting to shoot long range because the bullet runout on all factory ammunition is horrendous! Bullets that aren't seated straight will never shoot straight, period.

If you want to consistently shoot accurately at any range (but especially at long range) you need to handload. If you don't you're basically just wasting your time (and ammo).

[Willoughby]

I'm not an exspert like Litz
but IMHO and personal exsperience
It is not uncommon for vlds to shoot moa or worse at 100 yards
and 1/2 moa at 300- 500 yards

[defcon9]

Thanks everyone for your valuable information!

I have noticed some inconsistent, very tight groupings at 200yds with the 165gr boat tails.
To be more specific, 2 rounds impacting less than an inch, and the 3rd 2 or 3 inches away.
This is similar to the 100yd groups with this round, excepting the "flyer" being 1-1/2 or 2 inches away at 100yds, with the 2 closer rounds still being an inch or less.

The 200yd range I shoot at is closed till late July for upgrades, so I haven't been able to shoot more than 100yds since mounting my better glass.

A co-worker says his neighbor is constructing a 1100yd + shooting lane, but the co-worker isn't fully credible in what he says, so I'm not holding my breath.

MrFurious, in agreement with your statement, I have been VERY surprised at the consistent one hole groups at 100yds and little more than an inch groups at 200yds using factory 150gr soft points. This consistent performance from the rifle with various run of the mill factory 150grs is what got my hopes up that I could possibly get long range performance from this rifle.

Of course, I have to get somewhere more than 200yds to reach any conclusion that I can have confidence in.

I don't intend to hand load(at least not in the near future), so whatever the rifle shoots with factory ammo is what I'll be limited to, for now.

It is what it is. I just don't know what that is yet, and seeking info from more knowledgeable persons than myself.

Again, thanks all.

[stinkitup]

Some experienced shooters guys that shoot monthly 1000yd/600yd etc have said to me that quite often the flat base pills are more accurate. Something to do with how the gases affect the bullet as it leaves the muzzle. It is easier for bullet makers to make consistent flat bases that boat tails or something along those lines. This is also why maybe the boat tails take a little longer to "settle down" or sleep as some say. Funnily enough all my guns shoot boat tails and all shoot accurately enough.

[ww1rdb]

all I can say is my old 110 made in 1971 never liked boat tails and always used the flat base..tried every thing I could think of back when I played with it a lot and gave up..