.223 in BTCSS Load Development

[FishinFool]

Just starting load development for this brand new rifle...first Savage and excited.

My super accurate load (for 18" Shilen, 1-8, AR) of 69 g. Nos. CC over 24.3 of 8208-XBR [Note: Over-Charge by 0.5 Gr.!, Work up-to your own load!] @ 2.260 just will NOT shoot in this half-mile-long 26", 1-9 barrel, Savage Barrel!

I just loaded 10 Each of 69 Barnes Match-Burners at 2.334" OAL with the following VV-N135 Charge Weights. I measured chamber to be Positively 2.344 OAL with these bullets at Contact With Rifling (not Stuffed). I'll try them 0.010-0.011 off and see how they fly..
22.0 g.
22.4 g.
22.8 g.
23.3 g.
23.7 g.
All primed with Tula 5.56 SR-Mag' Primers.

I think problem with my previous lights-out AR15 load was the bullet-speed being too fast for a 69 g. Nos or barrel-harmonics. Velocitiy shift from 18", 1-8 twist to 26", 1-9 twist was exactly 300 FPS. Where the AR was shooting at 2,700 with low deviations and less than 1/2", the same cartritridge in new BTCSS was making high 2,900's to 3,000 in the longer tube and struggling to stay at 1" (100yds).

Anyone care to guess what the best charge above will be for 100 yd. groups. I'll come back on in a week or two with Chrono. numbers, etc.;)

[Rich]

Just starting load development for this brand new rifle...first Savage and excited.

My super accurate load (for 18" Shilen, 1-8, AR) of 69 g. Nos. CC over 24.3 of 8208-XBR [Note: Over-Charge by 0.5 Gr.!, Work up-to your own load!] @ 2.260 just will NOT shoot in this half-mile-long 26", 1-9 barrel, Savage Barrel!

I just loaded 10 Each of 69 Barnes Match-Burners at 2.334" OAL with the following VV-N135 Charge Weights. I measured chamber to be Positively 2.344 OAL with these bullets at Contact With Rifling (not Stuffed). I'll try them 0.010-0.011 off and see how they fly..
22.0 g.
22.4 g.
22.8 g.
23.3 g.
23.7 g.
All primed with Tula 5.56 SR-Mag' Primers.

I think problem with my previous lights-out AR15 load was the bullet-speed being too fast for a 69 g. Nos or barrel-harmonics. Velocitiy shift from 18", 1-8 twist to 26", 1-9 twist was exactly 300 FPS. Where the AR was shooting at 2,700 with low deviations and less than 1/2", the same cartritridge in new BTCSS was making high 2,900's to 3,000 in the longer tube and struggling to stay at 1" (100yds).

Anyone care to guess what the best charge above will be for 100 yd. groups. I'll come back on in a week or two with Chrono. numbers, etc.;)

My experience with my Savage model 12 1x9 in .223 goes against most postings I read on the internet concerning this rifle. For one ....it has shot best with loads just over starting loads in every load I've ever tried. Second...the closer to the lands I seat a bullet the larger the group. She likes a good jump even with many thousands of rounds down the pipe.
The 8208 is the best powder I've used with 53 / 55 grainers but have had mediocre results with my beloved 69 hpbts using it. For those I like Varget...under 24.5 grns seated to 2.250. I've just discovered a new love...Vihta Vouri n140 with the 69s

[FishinFool]

Hi Rich, Thanks very much for the great input. I have several hundred 52 g. Barnes burners as well. I will deffinitely be developing load data for them too, but the long-jump shooting the best is a real surprise.

I have never loaded Vihtavouri powders before, but in these times I grab anything I can find that will be in the right speed-range to feed the toys.

[quickkillaught6]

Fishin, if you do a search on loads for 223 you will find myself and a couple other members loading information, trying to get the 53 vmax to shoot. his rifle and mine aswell. utilized almost the identical oal. him using xbr and myself using another (dont recall) but both guns had a sweet spot in oal. the 69's all of my 1-9 savages prefer H4895 over Varget. good luck with your quest for tiny groups...

[FishinFool]

Very Interesting "Study" of the COAL issue and 53 VMAX loads. (Search quickkillaught6 posts) In light of that I will put 1/2 of the 10 rnd. strings in the VV-N135 ladder above back into the Seating Die and set 5 from each of the charge-weights back to Magaziine Length of 2.260".

It will be telling to see how same-load, same-powder, same-day, same-bullet, etc. shoot 5-shot groups with .070 difference in Seating Depth (COAL).
I never would have thought that a rifle round would shoot Better with a big jump, but some of those groups (in .223 Pet Loads - Show 'em) are just too obvious Not to try it...

[FishinFool]

Very Disappointing Results from the VV-N135 / Barnes 69g testing yesterday. I have frequently shot 15-round rotton 3/4" holes using my 18", 1-8, AR-15 and it's favorite loads. Distance was 100 yds, 80 deg., no wind, sunny sky...perfect.

I DID fiind that (as was suggested in other experiences, the Standard Mag. Length ammo is Better than .010 Off-the-Rifling in this gun...Strange. I had about 40-50 rnds thru barrel before testing but my exeperience has been that best accuracy is achieved with 30-40 already fired. I usually clean after 150-200 rends. Is Savage barrel different?

Each Charge was weighed to the exact 1/10th of a grain and seating was in a Forster Bench-Rest Die. Everything very closely controled on the reloading-side. All of the groups "Sucked" but some were 1/2 to 1/3 the size of the Really bad ones. (See Picture). This is the Mag. Length Seated target. Just imaging the 2.333 Length stuff being another 1/4" - 1/2" Larger...Ugh!

Velocities were also not as consistent as what I was expecting from the "Scandinavian Miracal Dust" (as you often hear fabulous accounts of VihtaVouri). This set was with VV-N135. I get better consitancy from my (favorite) 8208-XBR under 69 Nos.-CC's. I'll try to get page from range book attached too. (Just too much typing..ha, ha)

Anyways...back to the grawing-board. Any input absolutely welcome (even if it is only thay I can't shoot worh a crap!)

NUTS! I don't have a URL address for any pictures. Wont take them up from my drive...

I guess I should mention that groups range from 2" largest to .85" Smallest.

[davemuzz]

F-squared,

I just posted on another thread, but this was concerning a Savage .223 Carbine, that I have always found for the .223 in my Carbine and my previous .223 T\C that they grouped teeny tiny holes when set at the Hornady COL of 2.250. BTW, I shot Hornady 40gr. for the T\C 1-12 twist and I'm getting one ragged hole groups from my 1-9 twist Savage Carbine using Hornady 68gr. BTHP match bullets over 24.5gr. of Varget. As I stated on the other post, the 69gr. SMK's did not work well from my Savage Carbine. In addition, I size my brass without a neck button for a bit tighter neck tension. (But.....you try what you think will work the best....as you well know results can\may\will vary.)

FWIW

Dave