Why are so few target guns built on Savage Actions

[docsleepy]

Hey Gordon, I did the same thing that you did, I built a custom rifle, and what I learned from doing so, is far well worth the cost of the rifle, and more so.

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82boy: incredibly helpful overview information you have given! Very helpful.

As to what makes it more accurate:
1. My experience: so far it isn't JUST the 6ppc. My new Shilen 6PPC barrel is not yet exceeding the groups of my .223 Savage -- even when I moved the Savage barrel to an ancient Sav110 that was RUSTY when I bought it. There is more to it than JUST the 6PPC.
2. The Shilen barrel is SHORT and STUBBY, on purpose, to reduce the "twang" of the long varmint rifle. Testing shows so far that a 2 grain change in H322 results in ONLY a 0.75" rise in point of impact at 100yards -- with the long .223 Savage varmint barrel, it was about THREE TIMES as much. So the short, FAT barrel is making a positive improvement. A combination of several groups plus a few shots with minimal horizontal error and very consistent vertical trend convinced me of this data.
3. My new stock has not yet arrived. Results above are from a tupperware stock bedded with Devcon, using the old (factory) recoil lug. Groups still not much better than 0.500 at 100 yards, 5 shots.
4. Next items on list: I Read the FAQ on bag technique on benchrest.com. I am doing it badly. Also: could be my scope. Will swap scopes in an experiment soon (maybe tomorrow). Also: could be the action; could be my load, probably IS related to the tupperware stock: although not making "two groups", the wide horizontal and nearly equivalent vertical dispersion suggests random error from one or more sources, likely the stock. I'm working on each item a bit at a time....I make lists of what I think I did wrong and want to do better. Once I forgot to perfectly remove parallax...wasted rounds... Current bag setup does NOT ride forward/backward well. Try powder (Suave) deoderant. With the thin forestock, my rifle cants too easily in front rest; get better results with bipod actually.

Loading: Unable to find "best charge" because my errors from other problems vastly exceed the powder errors. my variation in verticle due to 0.1 grain of powder is less than half a tenth ofan inch....but my horizontal is 0.5". So....(wilson) seat to the lands, load reasonably, and work on technique. Later, should beable to improve.

The reduction in torque from going from a 1:9" barrel to a 1:13" barrel is significant. That is helping me out somewhat. Still learning! Much fun. Did some "club" competitions last summer when off work, learned a lot.

gordon

[Dirk]

Didn't realize that you couldn't be serious about shooting without competing...

If you are quoting me, get it right. I said "If you are truly passionate about shooting, go to a match and compete!"

[Smokepole]

So, if I'm passionate about "heing and sheing" I guess I need to be a porn star right?

[Dirk]

Well, if you've got the equipment..... ;D

[Bad Water Bill]

KIRK This site tries to educate and share information in a FRIENDLY way. There are many other sites where you can brag about your superior knowledge and ability to insult others. You have no idea how many of us you are offending with your superior attitude.

[Dirk]

That really added to the conversation. What have YOU got to add?

[groupshooter22]

KIRK This site tries to educate and share information in a FRIENDLY way. There are many other sites where you can brag about your superior knowledge and ability to insult others. You have no idea how many of us you are offending with your superior attitude.
+100,000,000. Go away Dirk

[Dirk]

The truth hurts.

[pa_wdchuckhuntr]

It seems we lose some civility and courtesy when sitting behind the keyboard. Negative posts and name calling have no value to this thread and stand to gain nothing. We owe it to 300magman not to hijack his thread and I apologize to him for my part in it.

Jeremey

[dc9loser]

I think if you shoot F-class, Savage comes out better cost-wise, even if you don't buy their F-class gun. Target action for $475, time & true for $125 (I hear that SSS will sell you a T&T target action for less than $475+$125=$600, but don't know for sure how much less), Farrell 20MOA base $70, Seekins or other similar rings ~$110 from Liberty Optics, SSS recoil lug $28 (though I'm not sure how necessary that is for target actions, which seem to have machined recoil lugs from the factory). According to the Savage website, the trigger guard is included. That's $808 not including shipping or FFL. Add $300-$400 for a high end barrel, and $800-$900 for a Sightron SIII from Liberty Optics, and you have a gun that can run with anything made for $2,000 or so total.

Well, that's what I'm telling myself as I price out such a gun ;D


Excuse me for being a newby: but who is SSS?

[pa_wdchuckhuntr]

SSS= Sharp Shooter Supply
NSS= Northlander Shooter Supply

Both are excellent vendors one this site.

[82boy]

Fellows, please keep the thread on topic. Insults and name calling is not welcome, please refrain and lets keep this thread on topic.

[dj111]

It all depends on what you want. I built my first gun on a target action, LW 243 barrel and Stockade stock, for around $1100. Started shooting 200-600 yard varmint shoots and got hooked. Then the next year added shooting a 300/600 yard league so rebuilt the rifle with everything I could do, 6BRX Burx barrel, EVO trigger t&t, firing pin bushed, bolt handle, bolt body, and it shot great!

But then next year is coming and I wanted more :( Sold this gun and 3 others to fund a Bat action gun. For what I had into the savage I was only 400 bucks more into the custom action bat. I wish I would have cut my loss on the savage before I started to mod it because I pretty much gave it away.

Patrick is right on the bolt lift, my bat bolt is slightly harder to lift then my mod savage was.

Accuracy for one shot point of impact hit between the custom and savage is a coin flip, but repeating under conditions may be the difference. If they were race cars they would both be in for a very close race if you were drag racing. But when you move to the road coarse it would be like racing a Corvette against a Honda, the corvette will just handle better.

If you are shooting bench rest the custom you can work the bolt fast, it is smooth, and you do not worry about dropping the sear with a hard bolt closing on a 2 oz trigger as you will with the savage. If you are shooting F-Class I think a savage would be all as accurate as a custom since you are doing one shot at a time. This is just my opinion, but if you are going to mod a savage, do yourself a favor and go custom from the start.

Dallas

[dj111]

Just for the record I do love Savages and plan on buying more! SSS does great work and the EVO trigger works well!

Making sure people didn't think I was a hater :)

Later,
Dallas

[hotbrass]

What distiguishes a Savage "target action" from a Savage non-target action?

Thanks!

[nhm16]

What distiguishes a Savage "target action" from a Savage non-target action?

Thanks!


Savage target actions are (1) single shot, (2) take large shank barrels, and (3) come with the Target Accutrigger. The come in a variety of bolt and port configurations (right bolt/right port, right bolt/left port, right bolt/dual port, etc.). These types of actions are most appropriate for benchrest and f-class shooting, hence the focus on these shooting disciplines in this thread. Savage also makes varmint and sporter actions, which are repeaters.

[300magman]

I'm more of a hands on, visual learner at times...so reading all this info which should serve to inform me fully often leaves me with stupid questions that might seem obvious to others....so please bare with me for a moment.

Shank size - this must be the size of the portion of barrel that is threaded and screws into the action? With small shank being somewhere near 1.05 and large shank being closer to 1.15 (very roughly..just going by memory of another thread I read)

So this means if I see after market barrels blanks for sale with 1", 1.200" and 1.250" starting diameters then the 1" are too small to be used and I might as well get the 1.200 rather than the 1.250 because even the smaller of the two will still need to be finished down to the smaller size of the savage....is that somewhat correct?

On aftermarket actions...I see many advertised as Remington clones, or as having a remington footprint...I know they connect differently than a savage (too bad) but do they typically come in larger sizes to accept barrels that are manufactured at 1.250" ...otherwise what is the point of a manufacturer selling both 1.200 and 1.250 barrels? - magnum actions? (like lupua, cheytac etc?)

[nhm16]

I'm more of a hands on, visual learner at times...so reading all this info which should serve to inform me fully often leaves me with stupid questions that might seem obvious to others....so please bare with me for a moment.

Shank size - this must be the size of the portion of barrel that is threaded and screws into the action? With small shank being somewhere near 1.05 and large shank being closer to 1.15 (very roughly..just going by memory of another thread I read)

So this means if I see after market barrels blanks for sale with 1", 1.200" and 1.250" starting diameters then the 1" are too small to be used and I might as well get the 1.200 rather than the 1.250 because even the smaller of the two will still need to be finished down to the smaller size of the savage....is that somewhat correct?


Correct. If you want to continue using the Savage barrel nut, you are limited by its internal diameter at its smallest and therefore the largest diameter barrel you can use is something like 1.12" or 1.125" (not sure, someone else feel free to clarify). The internal diameter of the barrel nut at its smallest is the same regardless of the size of the shank.



On aftermarket actions...I see many advertised as Remington clones, or as having a remington footprint...I know they connect differently than a savage (too bad) but do they typically come in larger sizes to accept barrels that are manufactured at 1.250" ...otherwise what is the point of a manufacturer selling both 1.200 and 1.250 barrels? - magnum actions? (like lupua, cheytac etc?)


Yes. As stated above, the maximum barrel diameter is limited by the inside diameter of the barrel nut. I think Remington 700 pattern actions are 1.35" in diameter, and people make aftermarket actions for magnums, etc., of even larger diameter. I don't know if you could call those large diameter actions true "Remington clones" or having a "Remington footprint" since they will not drop into a 700 stock without a lot of inlet work (I'm not talking a nip and tuck here to get things to clear that you almost always have to do even for clone actions that are "drop in"). In either case, you can use barrels with a larger max diameter than 1.12-1.125".

[Blue Avenger]

some only accept the Rem aftermarket trigger. bolt head is more Sako then Rem.

Few guys here have gone nut-less here to get bigger barrels, but when you do that you have to go to a starting dia if the receiver for a proper look.