what is the advantage of wildcats.....

[hershey]

ok, i am sure that this is not a first time question, but as a beginner looking down the road i am trying to understand all this wildcatting of different cartridges.

i think a big part of it is for the fun of the shooter, trying different stuff, playing etc. i understand that feeding action, and felt recoil and stuff like that all play into it, but are people really finding huge performance changes in these wildcats.

i am gonna use 30 cal. as an example. on the low end is 30 carbine, w/ 308, 30-06, 300wsm, 300rum etc., this covers a huge powder range/capacity for the same batch of bullets, from basically 110gr, to 240gr, w/ a host of powders to push them. i used the above example because i own all those chamberings (except 30 carbine) in quality rifles.

the wildcats out there are enormous in just 30 cal, and with other calibers the options are even more over the top. from my perspective w/ all the various capacity cartridges already available in factory brass and inexpensive dies, what is the advantages of going down the wildcat trail?

i realize i can ask this about a host of caliber's, .22 cal is even bigger in wildcatting, but w/ .223rem and 22-250 readily available and reasonable, does someone really need to go down that road to get better performance, or have i completely missed the point here?

[ctrout]

You are correct in that it has a lot to do with the fun of creating a cartridge or working with a cartridge that isn't available from the factory. Part of it could also be pride of ownership too. I guess it could be something like restoring a rare collectible. When you are done, you will have something unique that is a labor of love. For some, there is a lot of satisfaction in that. Years ago, wildcatting was done more to fill a performance gap. Most of the cartridges that we use today started life as wildcats (25-06, 338-06, 7mm-08, 243Win, 22-250, 260, 270 Win, 280, 35 Whelen etc.). You are also correct that nowadays there are very few performance gaps so now it has to do with more minute details of cartridge design. I wanted a 338 Lapua but couldn't have one in a Savage so I opted for a 338 Edge. I could have settled for the 338RUM but the key word there is SETTLED. I don't like to settle.

[tammons]

Personally I think they are a PIA.

Back in the old days when there were a lot of gaps in calibers and not many magnums, it made sense, Rework a lever action to a 444ss (cant remember the name of what that wildcat was) or rebarrel a gun to a 338-06 etc. If I remember right a lot of that sort of wildcattting was done to get higher vel big caliber rounds for Ak and canada, moose bear etc.

On the other end were the target shooter wildcatters, looking for better performance, IE the 22 ppc, and other BR rounds.

One of the later good wildcats is the 30BR that was developed for 100-200-300 yd score shooting.
That now dominates 100-200 yd over the older rounds. Randy Robinette created that one but close rounds close to that had been done before.

There are just so many good cartridges out there, I just dont see why other than pride of ownership of the name. Either that or if you come up with something that just works a lot better than anything else.

One might be 6mm wildcats built of the new 30 RAR shell, but then there are so many good 6mm rounds, like the 6mmBR, 243, 6x47 lapua wildcat.

Another apparently good one was a special done for 1000 yd competition. Cant remember the guys name though. 308 caliber, built of a necked down and modified shell/shoulder 338 lapua. I think that guy now holds the record at something like 1.75" at 1000 yards.

[Apache]

Wildcats are a labor of love! ;D

As stated, there are very few gaps in levels of performance nowadays.

Most cats were built for improved performance of some type...not just velocity though. One of the primary purposes of the Ackley line was to limit case stretch and therefore add to case life. Velocity performance aside, the goal was accomplished. The Ackley cases very seldom need to be trimmed after being formed.

Another reason is brass availability or cost. Many of the '06, 308 and 223 based cats were done because the cost of military brass is relatively cheap. (unless you get Lapua brass!! ;) ;D)

The number one reason:

Because you want one!!! ;) ;D


I do it for the sheer pleasure of playing with anything firearm related! ;)

Right now I'm juggling wildcats and casting/swaging/casting bullets.

If, as some are trying, they outlaw bullets or brass or something along those lines....the knowledge of wildcatting/swaging/casting will keep me shooting when everyone else has run outta ammo. ;)

[tammons]

Well if it gets to that point, they will probably create a new law banning the manufacturing of bullets
without a license etc etc.

For now I am with you.
I need to get out there and melt down some wheel weights.

[hershey]

the subject is kinda changing here, but since we started that direction, i want to ask, if ammo goes the way obama wants it to, casting and swaging i agree is of value, but what is involved in making a primer and modern style powders. we can all stockpile lead and such, but without primers, the bullet is worthless.

i guess point blank, how hard is it to manufacture a reliable primer?

[tammons]

I am sure you could make a primer somehow, but its probably easier just to buy several thousand.

It has an impact-sensitive chemical but I have never read what it is.

If they go by the wayside, we might have to go back to black powder flintlocks I guess.

You might be able to make a percussion cap easier.

Basically a metal cup and some nitro glycerin or fulminate of mercury.

Black powder is made from Salt Peter, sulfer and charcoal, and you
can still buy the components for that for now.

[Blue Avenger]

flint lock

[outlawkyote]

Flash bulbs from the old style cameras. You can use a one ounce electronic trigger.

[Apache]

Outlaw, have you already figured out how to do that?

If guns, bullets, powders and primers are all outlawed....I haven't figured out how to "get around" the primer yet.

Bullets...I got covered.
Brass...got covered.
powder...got covered.

Primers? I'm screwed, other than stock piling.

[jlcpls]

save your thermometers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury(II)_fulminate

[outlawkyote]

i havent figured anything out really havent thought about it much, just throwing out some ideas.

Yall havent figured it out yet huh? About 20 years ago they had a new type of primer developed that was designed to go bad after only 3 months on the shelf. Stockpile all you want but if your ammo isnt already loaded by now, your screwed. How much you wanna bet they are on our shelves already? Im not betting I have some in my stock already.

I know lots of people are grabbing up ammo by the millions, thats cool but seriously, just how much ammo would a guy need to feed himself? We cannot fight the Govt with these primative weapons when all they have to do is push a button.
Just load up what you can for your most dependable rifle and call it good. I recomend a good 223 with a couple hundred rounds, you can kill most any animal with it and its quiet. Maybe a good 22LR, Ive killed deer just fine with that.

Has anyone else heard about all the ATF agents that are showing up in a city near you? They are already checking around this town and talking to people who have made rifle purchases recently. Anyhow, Thats what Ive heard from a local FFL holder/friend. Its closer than you think and there isnt anything we can do about it. Trying to get organized doesnt work (hasnt in the past ) because the Govt shuts them down when they try.All we can do now is ready ourselves to meet out maker (unless your not a Christian or Jew) then you dont have anything to worry about..LOL..

Recently heard that Obama is changing our servicemens oath now too. Instead of pledging an oath to America, its been changed to pledging an oath to the president of America. Were in HUGE HUGE trouble people. Ive never wanted to be a horormonger but what else good can be said right now?

I recomend we dont talk about fighting our leaders other than through demonstrations. Ive personally been trying to distance myself from gun forums lately and asked to be released from my moderator possition. Jim was a very good sport and I apreciate that but staying away from something you love is proving very dificult.

Good luck guys, hope ya'll can find a cure for the little primer problem situation. Now, back to lurking... ;)

[Apache]

;D

Hard to stay away ain't it? ROTFLMAO!

I know what you mean, but it's hard NOT to say anything while watching all this BS take place.

Like you said though, the most important part of this, is to make peace with your Maker! It may be the only peace we will have before much longer. ;)

CYA L8r lurker! LOL!

[EFBell]

OK, back on track.

Because you cannot buy a 257WSM over the counter. ;)

[Apache]

OK, back on track.

Because you cannot buy a 257WSM over the counter. ;)


That is one really GOOD wildcat Ed!!!


Sometime this year, if things don't get crazy on us, I'm gonna get either a controlled round feed or center feed and do one of those.

Yours is a controlled round feed right?

I'm really liking the 25-06AI and thinking the 25 caliber needs to be explored more.

[EFBell]

OK, back on track.

Because you cannot buy a 257WSM over the counter. ;)


That is one really GOOD wildcat Ed!!!


Sometime this year, if things don't get crazy on us, I'm gonna get either a controlled round feed or center feed and do one of those.

Yours is a controlled round feed right?

I'm really liking the 25-06AI and thinking the 25 caliber needs to be explored more.


Yep, early large shank controlled feed.
You cant have enough 1/4 bores.

[tammons]

How about a 25-06 black powder matchlock side-lock just in case they outlaw flint.

This is what our savages will look like after we get through converting them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PS8004046.jpg

Of couse SSS having a lock (no pun intended) on savage refits should already have a
more refined matchlock in-line assembly.

Rumor has it, Hammer already has 25 or so matchlock savages waiting just in case.

[Apache]

Thinking of 2 wildcats in 25 cal.....other than the 257WSM

A 25x47 Lapua.....I LOVE that case.

and one based on the 6.5x55 case....take a 25BR reamer run it deep. Will be a bit more than a 25 Bob and I'll use Lapua brass for it. Using the Barnes 80 grn tipped TSX it should be a very good killer in a light weight rifle.

[Apache]

How about a 25-06 black powder matchlock side-lock just in case they outlaw flint.

This is what our savages will look like after we get through converting them.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PS8004046.jpg

Of couse SSS having a lock (no pun intended) on savage refits should already have a
more refined matchlock in-line assembly.

Rumor has it, Hammer already has 25 or so matchlock savages waiting just in case.


LOL!!

I can just see a Savage with that modification on it!!!

[EFBell]

Seems like the logical next step in the evolution of the 10ML.

Been thinking about that 55mm case myself. ;D