Head space

[Dirk]

With a Savage, it's always better to hold the receiver when tightening the nut. I leave the go gage in with bolt closed and hand tighten the barrel, then while holding the receiver (I use rear entry action wrench) I tighten the nut with a barrel nut wrench. I do not make it gorilla tight.

[woosum]

Man, WHAT A SITE!!!. :o..This is awesome. Lots of folks round here gonna benefit from all your knowledge guys ;D THANKX!!

[hotbrass]

With a Savage, it's always better to hold the receiver when tightening the nut. I leave the go gage in with bolt closed and hand tighten the barrel, then while holding the receiver (I use rear entry action wrench) I tighten the nut with a barrel nut wrench. I do not make it gorilla tight.


Where do you buy a rear entry action wrench?

[Dirk]

http://www.sinclairintl.com/product/8362/Barrel-VisesWrenches

[hotbrass]

Cool! I can make one of those in no time. And virtually no cost!

I have seen another one for a 700 action with a T handle. I like this one better.

Thanks!

[Stefan]

So in summary and correct me if I'm wrong,
For factory ammo a guaged HS is sufficient.
For greater accuracy a fired and sized case is desired.

I prefer neck sizing only and absolutly hate full length sizing.
Thinking about it I would need to full length size if I went this method for HS since just neck sizing would potentialy cause issues with differing chamber dimensions if I'm correct.

I am over thinking this probably.

[bigedp51]

If you watched the video of the gunsmith with the chamber reamer he was using a "GO" or minimum head space gauge, and this is how a trained professional would do it. Us poor folks could use a new unfired case which would be approximately .002 smaller than the "GO" head space gauge. By placing one layer of scotch tape across the base of an unfired case you would be at approximately the same "gauge" reading as a real "GO" head space gauge.

Or to put it in simpler terms if you use an unfired case to set your head space you will be .002 "UNDER" minimum head space.

If you put one piece of tape on the end of the unfired case you will be right at "GO" or minimum head space.

If you use two pieces of scotch tape and the unfired case you will be + .002 over minimum head space.

This is not rocket science, on the British .303 Enfield at the maximum head space of .074 and a American made case with a rim thickness of .058 you will have .016 head gap clearance or "air space" between the case and the bolt face.

My point bring here you have to make up your minds if your building a bench rest rifle or just a super accurate multipurpose rifle. The bottom line is don't over do head space, a Remington M40 7.62 sniper rifle would NEVER have the head space set as tight as you are talking about here and they are still making head shots at 800 yards.

On top of this without a RCBS Precision Mic to measure your fired cases and head space control shims for your reloading dies, your dies, shell holder and reloading press setup could be off as much as .002 to .003 very easily. On top of this Redding makes "Competition Shellholders" in + .002. +.004, +.006, +.008 and +.010 designed for minimum resizing meaning the shell holder are .002 to .010 thicker than a normal shell holder.

The bottom line here is American cartridge cases run on the small side and if you try and chambered a Lapua, Norma or Prvi Partizan case the bolt might not close or be very tight. You can always fire form your cases to be a custom fit to your chamber and rifle.

[rjtfroggy]

OK let me see if I have this right.
I just installed a new Shilen 260 rem barrel on a 111 action using brand new factory cases that I FL sized and measured for length to be sure they were the same. Then I put a piece of masking tape on one and that made it .003 longer, I tightened the barrel down on the first case until the bolt closed with a little resistance not forcing but snugly. Then I put the longer case in and the bolt would not even come close to closing.
So now I have a barrel that is head spaced tighter than factory and may not feed all factory ammo. Is this correct?
I also set my oal by setting a lightly lubed bullet in the case mouth on the long side then gently chambered , ejected, measured, then subtracted 0.020 from the chambered length and made this my starting point for loading ammo.
Am I missing something or doing something incorrectly? I am new to changing barrels but not to reloading and I am always ready to learn something new.

[Blue Avenger]

You got it! All my guns that I have rebarreled are set up this way.

[rjtfroggy]

Greg, so if I understand correctly I now have a rifle basically set up for bench rest comp. so accuracy should be relatively easy to acquire, with just some adjusting of my seating depth and my load(if needed).
Also am I to believe that if I buy some factory ammo it will not chamber. Not that I plan on buying it but you never know could be on a trip and need to purchase ammo.
This the second rifle I set up this way and so far getting centered on paper has been a lot easier with fewer shots being needed to zero.
I posted a target from this 260 in my post "new build with pictures". It isn't the best looking group but considering the weather conditions at the time and the fact that there is only a total of 35 rounds down the tube I don't feel it is too bad.Each flier is after scrubbing the barrel clean, one more range session should clear that up, after a few more rounds the barrel will be shot a little dirty for consistency, We will see.

[possum1]

This headspace thing, I just couldn't grasp it in my mind " too small I'm sure ", PM'ed biged and he really explained it to me. The "way" some of us are headspacing is correct, the only draw-back is there is a good possibility the rifle's won't chamber Factory round's. Like froggy said I'm not planning on it.

[Got Diesel]

In my case I am setting up a 308 Win. I have a set of forster gauges for it. Run it down on the go gauge tighten the barrel nut up good and snug. Remove the go gauge and replace with the no-go gauge or try to. It won't close on the no-go gauge, gets right to where the bolt would begin to turn down and stops. The thing is the go gauge must be right on the minimum because when chambering a factory round it's a bit of a stiff bolt. Using a full length sized piece of brass the bolt closes great nice and smooth. So what I am getting at is even with using a go gauge the gun may still not like factory loaded ammo.

[WyrTwister]

I am considering changing the barrel on a Savage . The way I would do it is to install a Go in the chamber ( with the bolt closed ) and screw the barrel down snug , against the Go . With the bolt still closed and the Go still in the chamber , I would tighten the nut down .

I would then see if the barrel would close on a variety of factory ammo . If it was too tight , I have a .002" and .004" shim cut from an automotive feeler gauge .

I would sandwich then .002" shim between the bolt head and the Go and re-set the HS . Then check with factory ammo .

Word of caution , use very light pressure when atempting to close the bolt , as in pressure from your pinkey finger .

God bless
Wyr

[Cover Dog]

rjtfroggy..........."Then I put a piece of masking tape on one and that made it .003 longer"

I have NEVER used masking tape, I use frosted scotch tape. I measured some masking tape I have on hand and it measures .0055 thats more then 3 times thicker then the scotch tape.

Maybe someone will jump in here and give their opinion and what type of tape they use.

[Dirk]

Screw the tape. Use a NO-GO gage!

[Cover Dog]

I have always used both go/no go when headspacing. I also use the tape on the go gauge after I have headspaced to see just how much "space" is left. Usually one thickness is enough to make the bolt handle somewhat hard to close. And with two it won't move.

[AZ-K9]

For the newer builders out there I think the video from the Savage sight is valuable with regard to setting headspace and explaining the floating bolt concept.

For the impatient, the headspace setting is explained at about 2:30 to 4:30 in the video....

http://www.savagearms.com/accuracy

[51Bravo]

Is it necessary to remove the extractor before headspacing?

Wood

[Blue Avenger]

no, but a lot of guys like the extra warm feeling that it did not hinder the operation and remove it.

[AZ-K9]

Is it necessary to remove the extractor before headspacing?

Wood


No, but be SURE your headspace gauge is UNDER the extractor and not on top.