Hollow Bas

[J.Baker]

Pictures are worth 1,000 words...

Uncocked (Axis bolt)
http://www.savageshooters.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64&d=1326184164

Cocked (Axis bolt)
http://www.savageshooters.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65&d=1326184166

Disassembled Bolt (220 slug gun)
http://www.savageshooters.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=228&d=1326523292

Close-up of Cocking Indicator/FP spring/Cocking Pin Assy. (220 slug gun)
http://www.savageshooters.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=233&d=1326523296

Note that on the newer 110's with this FP assembly the FP spring will likely be two pieces.

[bower4311]

I was the one that had this happen to me.
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y501/Bower4311/20130303012136826_zpsdf1b2f71.jpg

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y501/Bower4311/20130303012202111_zps3ee8396d.jpg

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[wbm]

BAS..."Buy A Savage" How very clever of them.

[scope eye]

Thanks Jim.

Dean

[stangfish]

I was the one that had this happen to me.
http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y501/Bower4311/20130303012136826_zpsdf1b2f71.jpg

http://i1278.photobucket.com/albums/y501/Bower4311/20130303012202111_zps3ee8396d.jpg



What kind of butchered up atrocity is this?!?!?! First they have the flawed accutrigger now this. A device designed to fail. If you pull the trigger to the side and the firing pin strikes the primer. This dang thing disapears only to surface again once you operate the bolt. Now this thing....Savage has lost it's freaking MIND!!!!!


Wait, could this thing help with the assembly of the bolt as well?

[scope eye]

I Could never own a model that has that setup, due to the pressures that I run at, I would be afraid that the firing pin would exit at 4400FPS instead of the bullet.

Dean

[bower4311]

Yeah these hunter XP models in finding have more and more problems over regular Savage rifles. I guess the detachable magazine is garbage too.

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[bodywerks]

What am i seeing in those pics of that disassembled bolt? I guess I'm not understanding the "atrocity". On the model 10's i see zero safety issue with the cocking indicator going through the BAS. Yes, it does make the 38/bb bolt lift kit not usable, but the thrust bearing bolt lift can be used if the indicator pin is turned down on a lathe to the diameter of the thrust bearing I/D(the one posted in this thread has a much smaller I/D than the ones with the steel bearing cage).
Or just cut the dang thing off like i did - it's just a cocking indicator. Plus the extra mass of that pin will slow down lock time, too. If the rifle is properly set up you can rely on the safety button to be your cocking indicator. If it's cocked the safety will be able to engage. If it's not it won't.

[stangfish]

Atrocity... this was an attempt at humor. IMNSHO There are many fixes to the bolt lift issue, outside of a T&T from Fred you are left to experement with it yourself and this kit has improved things somewhat for some people but a microfinish on the cocking sleeve and the BAS as well as a home timing job is where the real gains can be seen. Add a little cretex tool to your dremel and put a light touch on the cocking ramp and your in business. Add a PTG bolt body that fits a little tighter and you are looking at proffessional type results.

[bodywerks]

Figured it was an attempt at humor. The thrust bearing alone does help with bolt lift, about equally as much a polishing the cocking cam. The two together are a big help. But i tend to agree that a polished micro finish on the BAS and cocking sleeve with some EP grease would probably do the same thing.

[scope eye]

Is everything else the same, could you convert to a shorter firing pin and a solid BAS.

Dean

[bodywerks]

Yes, everything else is the same. You could convert or just hack the indicator pin off the cocking piece. But if you know a gunsmith that can order the parts for you the BAS is $4, and P/N 104581 and the cocking piece is $2 and P/N 100116.

[scope eye]

Take notes class,

good info tanks for posting.

Dean

[stangfish]

about equally as much a polishing the cocking cam.

I misspoke. I said cocking ramp. I meant to say or imply the lug ramps needs to be lightly polished. Nothing has given me the improvement of altering the spring tension at the cocking sleeve and polishing the "lug ramps".

[bower4311]

Yes, everything else is the same. You could convert or just hack the indicator pin off the cocking piece. But if you know a gunsmith that can order the parts for you the BAS is $4, and P/N 104581 and the cocking piece is $2 and P/N 100116.

So if I print this out and bring it to my gun smith he can order those parts and I would have the same action as everyone else? I'm the one who had the original hollow BAS problem. I'm young and new and don't follow every post like most of you.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[bodywerks]

If what you have is a savage model 10 with the bolt release in the trigger guard, then yes. But if you are new/inexperienced then you'd probably want your gunsmith to install the parts as well

[scope eye]

So if I print this out and bring it to my gun smith he can order those parts and I would have the same action as everyone else? I'm the one who had the original hollow BAS problem. I'm young and new and don't follow every post like most of you.

Yes you are our newest problem child. LOL

Dean

[J.Baker]

Or just cut the dang thing off like i did - it's just a cocking indicator. Plus the extra mass of that pin will slow down lock time, too. If the rifle is properly set up you can rely on the safety button to be your cocking indicator. If it's cocked the safety will be able to engage. If it's not it won't.

I think you're a little confused on the whole mass/lock time thing my friend. Faster lock time (which Savage already has the fastest lock time of any production or aftermarket action at 1.2ms) is completely useless if there's not enough mass to consistently ignite the primer. Yes, lopping off the indicator will lighten up the pin and allow it to get moving more quickly when released, BUT (and this is a big but) that miniscule gain in speed is dwarfed by the loss of kinetic energy behind the pin to ignite the primer due to the loss in mass.

Think of it this way - Your hunting brown bear on Kodiak Island with your favorite .300 WSM rifle. YOu find a monster of a bear - surely a world class trophy specimen - so you line him up in your scope and pull the trigger. Now, would you rather have a 125gr bullet hit that bear that got there faster but just pissed it off because it didn't have the mass/energy to do the job, or would you rather have a 180gr bullet that would more than likely drop that bear where it stands?

The new firing pin/spring assembly has the extra weight of the cocking indicator designed into the equation, so if you hack that weight off to remove the indicator and run a standard BAS you're going to create the possibility for light primer strikes as the FP no longer carries the mass/energy it was designed to have. You could resolve this by going to a heavier FP spring, but in doing so you would then be making the bolt lift even stiffer which would be counter-productive to why this thread was started in the first place.

Lesson of the day: Speed doesn't kill - and it doesn't always ignite primers either. You might have gotten away with hacking it off on your rifle because the tolerances were tight to start with, but someone else following your bad advice might not be so lucky and would just be creating more problems than solutions for themselves - especially a young new guy who admittedly doesn't know a whole lot about guns much less the inner workings of them.


As to the speculation that this new system is somehow unsafe or less safe than the old system, that's pure lunacy. Look at the design of the firing pin....note how the firing pin indicator is smaller in diameter than the body area for the cocking piece? See that big thick mass in the middle that's twice the size? That ain't gonna fit through the hole in the BAS no matter how much pressure you put behind it, and to some degree it also serves to seal off the the BAS so no high pressure gasses or primer debris get shot straight back into the shooters face in a case failure situation.

http://www.savageshooters.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=228&d=1326523292

Just because you don't favor change and/or don't like the design because your little kit won't work with it doesn't make it a bad design. In actuality it's far less complicated and much easier to maintain than the old FP assembly, and since it's non-adjustable it's one less thing we have to worry about checking/fixing on our guns

[bower4311]

Hmm... Now sure where this would leave me. Change it out or keep it the same?

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[J.Baker]

If it were me I'd just leave it as-is. Why spend another $40-60 to buy a different firing pin assembly and BAS just so you can use something that was free? Save that money and put it towards a proper True & Time job in the future if/when you decide to change the barrel.

The thing you have to remember around here is that a lot of these guys have been playing the Savage game for a long, long time and they're essentially stricken with a disease the prevents them from being able to leave well-enough alone. They'll mess with/modify anything and everything they can get their hands on - often times with little to no concern as to whether it's actually beneficial or not. There's also a lot of home-brew solutions around here, and some are - shall we say - less than well thought out and in some cases even questionably safe.

So as with everything else on the internet - take everything you read and see with a grain of salt, and if something does intrigue your interest that you're not all that familiar with do your own research before diving into it.

The bolt-lift kit scope-eye sends out is a well known band-aid for the stuff bolt lift found on most Savage's, but it's not the do-all/end-all solution to the problem.