6mm-Rem-AI and the 105 A-Max ?

[bootsmcguire]

Ok, I have loaded for a fair amount of standard calibers and a few of the Improved versions, but I have yet to tangle with the 6mm-Rem-AI. I am wanting to build a new rifle in a 6mm bore that will shove the 105 A-Max up past 3300fps. In one of my manuals, it lists a load of 48.0gr of RL22 (max) pushing a 100gr bullet to 3205fps for the standard 6mm Rem. I am hoping with the increased capacity of the blown out taper and shoulder of the AI version that 3300 is possible. I am looking for some first hand experience with the 105 and the 6mmAI to see what kinds of speeds are actully possible.

I do have a 2nd 6mm caliber choice in mind that would easily go upwards of 3500fps. Barrel life will be short with it, brass cost would be more, and would reauire special dies, but it would be fun. I am just trying to decide if the 6mm-Rem-AI would get me close enough or if I should take the plunge and go with the 2nd Wildcat choice.

[scope eye]

You wouldn't be talking about a 6mm-06AI would you now, If you are go for it.

Dean

[bootsmcguire]

scope eye, how did I know that you would be the first to catch this thread.;)

Actually no, the 6-06AI is my 3rd choice. I was actually contemplating a 6mm-WSM. After talking to someone who has the 6mm-WSM everything about it was impressive except for barrel life.

I am actually hoping that I could achieve my goals with the 6mm-Rem-AI due to cheaper dies, fairly easy to find brass, and no necking down required. But I have the feeling that 3300 may be asking too much.

[Russell D]

If you were asking this in a month I'd probably be able to answer this question. I am currently building myself a 6mm REM AI with an 8twist and I have a few hundred 105 A-max's sitting on the shelf. All I need is a stock, I already have everything else to build it.

Have you looked into a 243AI? I'm not sure what speeds that would do with the 105's, but brass is much easier to get a hold of for that

[scope eye]

They overbore on that 6mm WSM is insane, the throat is doomed from the get go, I tell ya don't discount that 6mm-06 whether or not you get they AI version, 25-06 - 270 - 30-06 is in abundance, I have 100 rounds though mine and not even a hint of erosion, and I did not even buy dies for a long while, I just neck sized 25-06 brass with my 243 win and off I went, and 3300 FPS is easy even with out loading like I do, LOL
the dies were 85 bucks from these guys, http://www.ch4d.com/catalog/dies , and they are as good or better than some of them out there, just my two cents

Tanks Dean

[bootsmcguire]

Russell, I have looked into the 243AI. I have had one for a few years now. LOL. I love it but I use it for the 55gr class of bullets and it does well with those so that is what it will see. I suppose I could build another, but half the fun is trying something new. All the data I have shows 3000fps as a max with the standard 243 so i am figuring 3100 for the 243AI with the 105.

Dean, the insane overbore is what put the 6mm-WSM as #2 on my list just because it is insane. I figured if I am going to have to go buy dies, might as well go all out. ;) In all honesty I will admit that the 6-06AI (yes I would definatly go AI just for the brass life if nothing else) is probably a more practical choice. I am a big 6mm bore fan so chances are a 6-06AI will be next on the build list, but I have to wonder how much Salt Bath Nitriding would allow the throat of the 6mm-WSM to survive? We better not start down that road, thats another topic for another thread.

I am curious though what a 105 in the 6mm Rem AI can do.

[scope eye]

From what I can see load data wise, you would be hard pressed to break 3200 FPS, way to much involved for such futile gain, as far as that 6mmAI rem goes.

Tanks Dean

[stomp442]

After having both a 6.5 WSM and a 6.5-06AI i will say that the 6.5-06AI will do anything the wsm would do only more efficiently. Willing to bet the 6mm would show about the same results. Lots of advantages to 06 case as case prep is next to nothing after fire forming and you can always find brass of some sort to make cases with. Just my two cents.

[308law]

What about the 6-284, it should get you there with much better brass and a little bit better barrel life.

[tiny68]

3200 is very reachable with no problems in a 28" barrel. Here are some of my load development sheets shot at 300 yards.

RE-22 with 107 SMK in 6 AI.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t151/tiny68_photos/Slide22.jpg

RE-22 with 95 Berger VLD in 6 AI

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t151/tiny68_photos/Slide12.jpg

IMR 4831 with 95 VLD in 6 AI

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t151/tiny68_photos/IMR4831ladder95VLD2.jpg

RE-22 with 95 Berger in 6 AI

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t151/tiny68_photos/6mmAckleyR-2295VLD2.jpg

I will have to try to find some groups..

tim

[bootsmcguire]

Tim, thanks for the info, looks like what i thought, 3200 is going to be the cap on the 6mm-AI. So now I guess I am going to have to research the 6-06AI vs the 6-WSM and maybe even think about the 6-284, but really it looks like the 6-06 and the 6-284 are pretty darn close in case capacity with the edge going to the 6-06. So I suppose in the interest of getting the most bang for the buck of those two the 6-06AI has the edge when you also factor in cheaper cost of brass.

[tiny68]

Well this is the data I willing to share. You can top 3400 fps with 6 Rem AI. I have done it several times, but the primer pockets became lose again a few firings. This was using RP brass which is soft as it can be. I will not post this load info. 5 years ago I purchased some RWS 7x57mm brass on close-out from Natchez. I had read this was some top quality brass and was very tough. I neck it down to the 6 mm and turned the necks. This is the toughest stuff I have every dealt with. I have some brass with 15 plus firings with very tight primer pockets. This is the same load that wreaked the RP after 2.

So... yes you can do it with the 6 AI. My suggestion is to go the 95 Berger VLD. 10% less weight with a ballistic coefficient that exceeds the 107SMK and 105 Amax. I have driven them to 3500 fps in the RWS brass.

I have to stay that since I got my first 6BR, the 6AI has become a safe queen. I had a 6mm Rem rechambered to a 6-06 AI in 1988. I shot the 55s in it. After it 400 rounds, the first 10 inches of the barrel looked like a snake skin. Yes- you can go faster but why? Overbore isn't the answer to accuracy IMHO.

Luck in your choice,

Tim

[Russell D]

One of the guys at the shop had a 6x284 shooting 115 d-tac at 3250fps out of a 29" 5R barrel. He has one now that he will shoot in the next week that he will be working loads up for, he will be shooting the 105 A-max's. I will post the data and groups once he shoots the rifle.

[bootsmcguire]

Russell, thanks I will look forward to that data.

Tim, I will definatly look into the 95gr VLD, i already have a small pile of the 105s here so thats why I was thinking of those. i will agree that Overbore isn't the answer to accuracy. With this project however, flat shooting with the 105 is the goal. Supreme accuracy is a secondary goal.

I suppose in all honesty, for flat shooting with that weight class of bullets, this project probably won't do much more than my 7 Rem Mag with 120's isn't doing already.

Thank you all for your thought so far. You all have made some good points, and got the wheels in my head spinning.

[tiny68]

My experience with the 105 Amax and the 107 SMK is that the best accuracy was in the 3100-3150 fps range. I never could top the groups I could get at this speed regardless of the powder I tried. By I fully understand the need for speed.

Again luck in your choice. Tim

[308law]

"I suppose in all honesty, for flat shooting with that weight class of bullets, this project probably won't do much more than my 7 Rem Mag with 120's isn't doing already."

Just do it with a lot less recoil, lol

[bootsmcguire]

"I suppose in all honesty, for flat shooting with that weight class of bullets, this project probably won't do much more than my 7 Rem Mag with 120's isn't doing already."

Just do it with a lot less recoil, lol

and a bullet with a better BC come to think of it. ;)

[tiny68]

Here is a 10 shot group at 500 yards with the 6AI and a strong load of RE-22 over the 95 Berger VLDs. This is with the RWS brass which is significantly thicker than the RP and developments more pressure. These averaged 3410 fps.

http://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t151/tiny68_photos/th_6AI-RE22-95VLD.jpg (http://s159.beta.photobucket.com/user/tiny68_photos/media/6AI-RE22-95VLD.jpg.html)

This was my go to load when I put the rifle up 3-4 years ago.

Luck, Tim

[bootsmcguire]

very nice. Those 95 VLDs look like they may be the ticket, assuming the barrel likes them of course.

[bootsmcguire]

Well my need for speed has taken over and since I have someone who can chamber it up and has experience in the round I am going to go with the 6mm-WSM for this build, and hopefully add a 6mm Rem-AI and a 6/06AI later on, cuz you can never have enough 6mm's.

I already ordered Dies, bushings, brass, and a neck turning kit from Brownell's which arrived today, but the FL Bushing Die and the Brass went on back order the day after I ordered so of course I am waiting on those. Looks like late March before I'll see them.

Thank you all for your information as it did help me come to a decision.