Target action 338 Lapua Improved build question...

[blueoval56]

Hey gents,

After seeing a 338 Edge build posted by another member, I have a few questions about a build I have been contemplating for some time.

I have a spare Savage Target action RBRP lying around waiting to do something with and this is what I was thinking:

-Savage Target action with PT&G 338 Lapua bolt head and .701 diameter PT&G bolt body(action would be trued by my local smith)
- McMillan A5
- Rock Creek or Krieger barrel in MTU contour finished at 29 inches 1:9.3 twist with a diameter of 1.350 at the shank to delete the barrel nut and have a seamless diameter from action to recoil lug to barrel.
- stick with the target accutrigger
- chambered in 338 Lapua Improved(40 degree shoulder)

I know I would have to pull the bolt to remove a loaded round, that doesn't bother me.

My main question is, on PT&G's website, they have the option to order a bolt head with 338 lapua bolt face, right port, for a short action. The whole build sort of hinges on the ability to get this part. Should this bolt head fit??

The reason I am stuck on the Lapua bolt face is that I have a bunch of 338 Lapua brass that I got a hell of deal on planning on buying a factory 338 one day. But this project wouldn't cost much more than the factory offerings(up here in Canada at least), and I could do the Improved chamber and end up with a match barrel instead of gambling with a factory tube.

If I didn't already have the Lapua brass I would probably just go with an improved version of the Edge, but I have 300 pieces of once fired Lapua brass already.

I tried asking this on one of the Canadian forums I frequent more often, but just not as many knowledgable barrel nutters up here ;)

Any advice would be appreciated,
Thanks!

[Fullskip]

If you go the improved route make sure that your size die is made to work with the chamber reamer used. This is a great round if you have the die made to the right dimentions. I ended up going the Neil Jones route, expensive but worth it. They were around 300 bucks...

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[blueoval56]

If you go the improved route make sure that your size die is made to work with the chamber reamer used. This is a great round if you have the die made to the right dimentions. I ended up going the Neil Jones route, expensive but worth it. They were around 300 bucks...

Fullskip

My smith has his own version with a 40 degree shoulder and almost no body taper and he makes his own dies from the same reamer, so no issue there.

I have had quite a few guys on a Canadian forum try to talk me out of this project as they feel there is a safety issue with the pressures and amount of bolt thrust with this setup.

I continue to do more research, but I am also contemplating buying a 110FCP-HS in 338 Lapua, selling the factory barrel and get a heavy 29 inch 338 Lapua improved barrel fitted(with barrel but) and also buy a shilen prefit 300WM barrel 26 inches long in a #7 contour. This way I would have a heavy extreme long range setup with the 338LAI, then switch barrel and bolt head to 300WM in a lighter #7 contour for an accurate hunting rifle.

[Fullskip]

My 338 Lapua ai is built on a Stiller LH Tac 338 action. Even with this big custum action I run into a little bolt snik... If it were me I would go with the Edge, no pain in the neck fireforming and close to the same performance. I have a 338/300 Ultra also ie... Edge. My Lapua gets right at 2900fps with the 300 gr otm berger.. That's only 75 fps faster then my edge. Some guys get near 3000 fps but are over pressure...
If you went with the Edge all you would need to do is swap barrels...

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[blueoval56]

I have read that there are about 10 different versions of the Lapua improved. My smith's version pushes a 300 SMK at 3150fps. I wouldn't have really believed it, but I have now seen it on 2 different chrony's.
Seems to be worth the extra effort to me. He also made an improved version of the Edge with a 40 degree shoulder. Really helps with brass life.

[dcloco]

338 RUM, 32" Rock Creek barrel, 98ish grains of Retumbo, + 300 gr SMK = 3000 fps. Would go with the Edge or a RUM. Just the cost difference in brass is enough to justify building the Edge or RUM.

[blueoval56]

338 RUM, 32" Rock Creek barrel, 98ish grains of Retumbo, + 300 gr SMK = 3000 fps. Would go with the Edge or a RUM. Just the cost difference in brass is enough to justify building the Edge or RUM.

I hear ya, but how many reloads are you getting with those loads? My smith got 43 reloads from his last batch of Lapua brass with his 40 degree improved. To me, that's incredible.
The cost of brass may be less initially for the RUM, but if you factor in the cost of how many times you need to buy that brass I think the Lapua improved is actually cheaper. Just a higher initial investment.

[dcloco]

How fast is your smith pushing a 300 gr bullet?

The primer pockets loosen before anything else. We are getting 9/10 reloads per case...so...10/11 total.

[blueoval56]

300SMK's at 3150fps. He had to trim the cases only 3 times in 43 reloads. The brass has almost no growth.
The only downside to his design( if you see this as a downside) is that with no body taper and a 40 degree shoulder, it won't feed from any Lapua mag except the HS Precision mag, and even then, it doesn't feed well. It's best suited for a singe shot rig. For me, it would be for smacking steel at over a mile so a single shot is what I would want.

The advantages of the improved for me are not just a few hundred fps more, but also no cases growth and much longer brass life. The standard Lapua should last around 10 reloads as well, so if comparing it to the edge or RUM then they are definitely cheaper. But with this design it makes that expensive brass last and last making it worth it.

[dcloco]

Very nice. All of the Ackley or Ackley copied variants always enjoy excellent case life. His primer pockets are lasting 40+ loads? Is he swaging primer pockets at some point and time?

[blueoval56]

Yep, primer pockets stayed tight. He said that this was due to two reasons first being the strength of Lapua brass, and second 3150fps isn't a hot load in his improved case. He said he could probably push it to 3250-3300 but, as you said, primer pockets start loosening up.

[dcloco]

I wish ALL brass manufacturers would stamp the ring around the primer pockets like Lapua does. By making this part of their production method, this creates a dense ring around the primer pockets, thus, keeping the pocket tighter over a number of firings.

[crittergetter]

i call a bull **** on this who is this wonder smith i would love to talk to him. the 338ax is only getting to 3000fps and thats about good as it gets. most imp will get you in the mid to upper 2900's at max load
43 reloads on one piece of brass come on lapua brass is as good as it gets but 43 loads at 3150fps maybe 3 to 4 at that pressure if your lucky.

[blueoval56]

So you decided to resurrect an eight month old thread simply to call bullsh*t?
I call bullsh*t on you sir because I have seen it with my own eyes. You don't have to believe anything you don't want to but I know it to be true.
The 338AX is a similar design with similar performance. The version that my local smith made has a steeper shoulder than the 338AX which leads to an even lower pressure spike. Plus the 338AX from Allen Precision was tested and is used with Jamison brass which is not as strong as Lapua.

I suppose you would also call bullsh*t on the the 338 Edge +P reaching 3000fps with a 300gr SMK? That little feat was accomplished simply by changing the throat of the chamber.

Do the rest of us a favor and do a little more research before you start running your mouth. Good day sir.

[Apache]

OK.......you both are getting infractions for all this....read the rules:

http://www.savageshooters.com/showthread.php?104-General-Forum-Rules-amp-Code-of-Conduct


This should be a double violation.....but I'm being nice.

You guys calm down.