First build and a little unsure!

[stangfish]

Help me decide?

[scope eye]

No worries Dean. I've read some of your insights on other posts and you are always right on in your arguments.

It's all relative I guess.

I really wish my lovely wife was member of this forum and could read that. LOL

Tanks Dean

[kslefty]

Redman if you don't have the money to fireform with bullets how the hell are you gonna reload them after fireforming? Not a legitimate argument to use the money savings.

[GaryB]

Help me decide?

¿Que?

[tammons]

I would like to do my first Savage build, but have some questions.

The rifle I have now is an M11GL in 243 Win. with sporter contour barrel and blind mag with a 4.275" screw spacing and stagger feed.

The rifle will be used primarily for bench work and hopefully an occasional trip out west for prairie dogs.

I'm pretty sure I want to go with the 223, but can't decide if the 223AI would be better or not. Any opinions on cartridge choice would be greatly appreciated. Is the 223AI any less accurate than the standard 223?

For the barrel I have decided to go with a Shilen in a 24" CM Varmint contour. If anyone has any other suggestions for something better/cheaper I'm always open.

I have looked at several stocks, but being a left handed rifle I'm somewhat limited in my choices. The one I'm leaning toward is the Choate Ultimate Sniper.

One last question I have is, will replacing the recoil lug with a match lug gain any noticeable accuracy or is that unnecessary?

Thanks for the help in advance and you have a great site here!
Gary

Personally for me, I would just start off with a 223 and if you want to AI it do that later but thats me.
There are some benefits to AI but in 223 only case stretch.
If very serious target only then you will be doing a ton of brass prep anyway so fire forming may not be such a big deal.

The Sniper stock is a very heavy stock and basically a slightly reconfigured Ultimate Varmint stock.
Personally I would prefer a Choate tactical stock with the adjustable cheek rest and shoulder pad - expensive.

Midway shows the left hand 223 bolt heads in stock in mid March.

Yes machined recoil lug now.

This is what I would do....

Of course change the barrel, bolt head and magazine plus......
Machined recoil lug, SSS trigger, choate V block stock or bedded B+C medalist stock, Farrel base plate or EGW if on a budget, Top rings of some sort
and a top top scope.

I would probably build a 7 twist personally unless I was going to shoot super light bullets like 35-40 gr.
Reason for 7 twist for me would be 90 gr bergers and the 70 gr barnes TTSX.
I have never shot an 8 twist and not sure if it would shoot either super tight in 223.
I know the 90 gr berger takes a 7 twist, but no huge advantage in 223 or an 80 gr bullet so....

My 2 tightest shooting rifles have been.....

6mmBR, as above, Shilen midway barrel riding in a Choate ultimate varmint stock with a nightforce 12-42x scope. Shot 3/4" at 300 yards.

223 7 twist factory barrel Savage moded as above riding in a bedded Medalist stock with a Nikon 6-18x scope I think.
It took a long time before I got it to really dial in like 200 shots, but finally got it shooting 1/4-3/8 groups, but I could only do that with 2 bullets. 52 gr amaxes and 90 gr berger. Everything else shot about 1/2". Never could find a combo that shot like those two. All of those were with CCI BR primers and lapua brass.

[GaryB]

Personally for me, I would just start off with a 223 and if you want to AI it do that later but thats me.
There are some benefits to AI but in 223 only case stretch.
If very serious target only then you will be doing a ton of brass prep anyway so fire forming may not be such a big deal.

The Sniper stock is a very heavy stock and basically a slightly reconfigured Ultimate Varmint stock.
Personally I would prefer a Choate tactical stock with the adjustable cheek rest and shoulder pad - expensive.

Midway shows the left hand 223 bolt heads in stock in mid March.

Yes machined recoil lug now.

This is what I would do....

Of course change the barrel, bolt head and magazine plus......
Machined recoil lug, SSS trigger, choate V block stock or bedded B+C medalist stock, Farrel base plate or EGW if on a budget, Top rings of some sort
and a top top scope.

I would probably build a 7 twist personally unless I was going to shoot super light bullets like 35-40 gr.
Reason for 7 twist for me would be 90 gr bergers and the 70 gr barnes TTSX.
I have never shot an 8 twist and not sure if it would shoot either super tight in 223.
I know the 90 gr berger takes a 7 twist, but no huge advantage in 223 or an 80 gr bullet so....

My 2 tightest shooting rifles have been.....

6mmBR, as above, Shilen midway barrel riding in a Choate ultimate varmint stock with a nightforce 12-42x scope. Shot 3/4" at 300 yards.

223 7 twist factory barrel Savage moded as above riding in a bedded Medalist stock with a Nikon 6-18x scope I think.
It took a long time before I got it to really dial in like 200 shots, but finally got it shooting 1/4-3/8 groups, but I could only do that with 2 bullets. 52 gr amaxes and 90 gr berger. Everything else shot about 1/2". Never could find a combo that shot like those two. All of those were with CCI BR primers and lapua brass.

Yea, I was kind of up in the air on the 223/223AI thing. Case life was my main reason for going with the AI version, but brass should be readily available again in the near future.

I just ordered this stock...
http://www.tacticalworks.com/Savage-SA-Stagger-Feed-Left-Hand-Tactical-Stock-by-Choate.html
Maybe not the best, but it does have the V-shaped aluminum bedding block and is fairly heavy. I'll give it a try and if it does not work out replace it with something better down the road.

I really wanted the Shilen barrel, but Criterion is a branch of Krieger and I can't imagine them producing a bad barrel. Either way I only had about $700.00 to play with right now and the barrel from Shilen was about $390.00 shipped. I want to contact NSS and see if their prices are any better. Maybe even order the bolt head and recoil lug from them also.

Thanks for all the info. It is greatly appreciated!
Gary

[BoilerUP]

My 223AI is a 22", 1:7 Criterion...

24.4gr Varget below an 80gr Amax in a virgin 223 case gives 2735fps and half MOA accuracy; in fireformed cases I see 2890fps with 26.2gr Varget and testing with 8208XBR looks like 40fps more velocity and even better accuracy.

I use a Lee Collett die and CCI-450s.

It also hammers deer, I've found...

[tammons]

Yea, I was kind of up in the air on the 223/223AI thing. Case life was my main reason for going with the AI version, but brass should be readily available again in the near future.

I just ordered this stock...
http://www.tacticalworks.com/Savage-SA-Stagger-Feed-Left-Hand-Tactical-Stock-by-Choate.html
Maybe not the best, but it does have the V-shaped aluminum bedding block and is fairly heavy. I'll give it a try and if it does not work out replace it with something better down the road.

I really wanted the Shilen barrel, but Criterion is a branch of Krieger and I can't imagine them producing a bad barrel. Either way I only had about $700.00 to play with right now and the barrel from Shilen was about $390.00 shipped. I want to contact NSS and see if their prices are any better. Maybe even order the bolt head and recoil lug from them also.

Thanks for all the info. It is greatly appreciated!
Gary

The stock I would like is the adjustable one, but basically the same as yours.
They are good stocks, and just the testament of shooting a 3/4" group at 300 yards with a choate stock with no work on it or the action says a lot.
I did not even torque the bolts.

I cant imagine a Shilen barrel being any better than a criterion. Prices sure have gone up though.
Last Shelin I bought was like $280 from midway.

[scope eye]

I would not worry about they availability of 223 brass 223 ammo yes but 223 brass, there has to be literally a billion pieces available, just go on any gun forum and someone has 223 brass for sale, and not by the hundreds by the thousands, so let not that be a deterrent,

Tanks Dean

[tammons]

+1 you can find 223/5.56 brass on arfcom. More expensive for now until thing settle down.

[wbm]

Scratching your back with a claw hammer works too but it ain't no fun and your glad when it's over.:cool:

[redman]

Redman if you don't have the money to fireform with bullets how the hell are you gonna reload them after fireforming? Not a legitimate argument to use the money savings.

Gee what logic. You are absolutely right! I mean why didn't I think of that before? If I can't afford 2 boxes of bullets how the hell could I ever afford 1?

:frusty:

[redman]

Scratching your back with a claw hammer works too but it ain't no fun and your glad when it's over.:cool:

As a carpenter of 18 yrs I can tell you I actually do this quite often (as needed anyway) and I thoroughly enjoy it.

[65impala]

I'll toss in my two cents here just for fun....

#1. I also scratch my back with a claw hammer quite often. The trick is to not dig too far into the skin. This can be quite painful and the blood will make your hammer rust, nobody wants a rusty hammer.

#2. I also fireform my brass (22 K-Hornet) without using actual bullets. I understand the argument the other way, and everyone has their preference so let me toss another tidbit or two into the conversation. In most of the country right now there is a component shortage and it's not so much a matter of the extra few cents to fireform as much as the extra bullets that are getting hard to find. Also, I haven't had need to fireform any bullets lately, but when I was forming a few hundred at a time I still did it via the cream of wheat (COW) method. Another benefit to COW method is that I can fireform in my garage without going outside into the cold, windy WY winter weather (I do most of these chores during the winter to pass the time). If you have to travel to a shooting range this benefit is even greater.

To me the benefit of the AI cases were not because you should fireform with real bullets, but rather because if you ran into a situation where you had no ammo you could use "standard" ammo as a substitute if needed. Also, the case life benefit is probably the largest plus to the improved chamber in my opinion. This is even more true with tapered rounds like the hornet, 30-30 and others....

So there you have one more opinion tossed into the mix.

George

[GaryB]

Well, I just got off the phone with Jim at NSS and I will soon be the proud owner of a Criterion barrel in 223 AI, stainless 26". And, with the money I saved ordering the barrel thru him, I picked up a stainless precision recoil lug and barrel nut! Jim was great to work with and a wealth of knowledge. Thanks Jim!

Now all I need to find is the 223 bolt head and I'm good to go.

Thank you everyone for the great help!

[BoilerUP]

What twist is that 223AI tube?

[GaryB]

What twist is that 223AI tube?

1in9 twist.

[GaryB]

I received my Choate stock today and as you can see by this really poor picture, the inlet in the trigger area is considerably shorter than the original stock and the Timney trigger I have installed will not fit. Other than that it looks and feels fantastic! Time to warm up the old Dremel.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v234/1Michele/Savage-3_zpsb956725a.jpg

I am stoked about this build!

[tammons]

That is pretty typical of every build I have done, IE Always have to remove material for an aftermarket trigger.

FYI, now you got me started looking for a new barrel - LOL.

[GaryB]

FYI, now you got me started looking for a new barrel - LOL.

It's a contagion I tell you !!!

Well the stock is mended and the bolt head came in and is installed. Like he says on "Duck Dynasty"; I am Happy, Happy, Happy.

I have one question about the ejector. Can I just leave it out? Tried to turn it around but it protruded above the bolt face and left the cartridge sitting crooked.