Final Savage of the Frenzy

[Roger SS]

Last month I had no Savage rifles. After months of researching and reading, I've come to realize that Savage is the way to go. I dove in head first. Today, I just added the Model 111 Long Range Hunter in 7mm Rem Mag. This follows the two you see below. I'm in. Can't wait to scope up and hit the range.
Question: The muzzle brake....do you find it effecting the point of impact whether it's in the on or off position?
What makes the rifle so heavy at 8.8 lbs.? It has the Accu-stock...but does it also have a heavy barrel? Can really tell with the muzzle brake there. (which has a good thickness to it)

[acemisser]

I aint sure about your rifle,but I have owned a few with the brake that screws on and off the barrel.....

I could never tell any difference in bullet impact....Now noise,,,well thats why i'm def. in my left ear...

And I never really noticed much diff. in the recoil of some rifle with it...

[Roger SS]

I aint sure about your rifle,but I have owned a few with the brake that screws on and off the barrel.....

I could never tell any difference in bullet impact....Now noise,,,well thats why i'm def. in my left ear...

And I never really noticed much diff. in the recoil of some rifle with it...

Thanks ace. I hear that those standing to the sides of a magnum calibered rifle with a muzzle brake really get the loud noise. I'll make sure I got ear plugs in of course. Check out this video. The guy is saying he definitely noticed a difference in point of impact depending on whether the muzzle brake was turned on or off. Guess I should just sight in with the setting I prefer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcK7lsqzInk

[darkker]

Roger,
here is your basic physics lesson. When ANY harmonic ballance point gets changed, then results can also be changed.
So, if turning the brake "on, or off" changes either: the length, weight, gas flow, then the results CAN change.

It MAY OR MAY NOT be a big enough difference for your circumstances to show.

So, some notice differences, some don't.

Clear as mud yet?

[Roger SS]

Roger,
here is your basic physics lesson. When ANY harmonic ballance point gets changed, then results can also be changed.
So, if turning the brake "on, or off" changes either: the length, weight, gas flow, then the results CAN change.

It MAY OR MAY NOT be a big enough difference for your circumstances to show.

So, some notice differences, some don't.

Clear as mud yet?

But I thought physics was an exact science. Think I'll just turn it on to get the benefit of reduced recoil and sight in from there. See what happens.

[dnsmith]

no 1st hand experience, but the reviews I have read of this gun say 1. there is a change in POI with brake "on" and "off" and 2. accuracy better with brake "on". I would be leaving it "on" anyway as it will make that 7 mag a little more comfortable to shoot. and as you know and as everyone is saying, you really will cause immediate hearing damage blasting away with a braked gun and no hearing protection on.

and what darkker is saying is right on point. turning brake on and off will affect barrel harmonics, which WILL change bullet impact.

[Roger SS]

no 1st hand experience, but the reviews I have read of this gun say 1. there is a change in POI with brake "on" and "off" and 2. accuracy better with brake "on". I would be leaving it "on" anyway as it will make that 7 mag a little more comfortable to shoot. and as you know and as everyone is saying, you really will cause immediate hearing damage blasting away with a braked gun and no hearing protection on.

and what darkker is saying is right on point. turning brake on and off will affect barrel harmonics, which WILL change bullet impact.

Gotcha. Thanks. I'll just leave it turned on then. This model has got a thick and soft recoil pad too. Gun weighs 8.8 lbs. stock. I never fired a magnum rifle round before but just watching videos, looks like 7 Mag doesn't kick nearly as much as 300 WM and others. Appreciate your input.

[Blitzfike]

I have a little experience with brakes, I have an Encore in 375H&H that is absolutely brutal without a brake and about like a 30-06 with it. With the brake on, it is definitely louder to the shooters position and anyone standing close by. The accuracy on it is way better with the brake on than off, but that probably has to do with my reaction to shooting it with the heavy recoil. I am currently building a 110 in 300 win mag with a tank style brake on it. I gave my son the previous 300 mag I had due to recoil. Ths one is going to be my long range target rifle. Just have to use a really good long and wide mat to keep from being sand blasted when shooting prone..Blitzfike

[Roger SS]

I have a little experience with brakes, I have an Encore in 375H&H that is absolutely brutal without a brake and about like a 30-06 with it. With the brake on, it is definitely louder to the shooters position and anyone standing close by. The accuracy on it is way better with the brake on than off, but that probably has to do with my reaction to shooting it with the heavy recoil. I am currently building a 110 in 300 win mag with a tank style brake on it. I gave my son the previous 300 mag I had due to recoil. Ths one is going to be my long range target rifle. Just have to use a really good long and wide mat to keep from being sand blasted when shooting prone..Blitzfike

Good points. Good to know. I'm thinking of possibly adding a lightweight 7mm Rem Mag to the line-up. Browning X-Bolt Stainless Stalker. Weighs 6.13 lbs. and has 26'' barrel. If I do decide to put a muzzle brake on...What kinda ballpark cost is it to have the barrel threaded? By a gunsmith or machinist?

[Blitzfike]

It varies by location. The last one I paid to have done cost me 65.00 to thread the muzzle and turn the brake down to match the contour of the barrel. Done by an old Oklahoma Highway Patrol armorer and he did a superb job. I have the ability to thread my own barrels and have done several, but with the 375, I wanted it bored 20 thousandths over bullet size and he had the correct equipment to do it. I've tried several different styles of brakes and some work better than others. The brakes with slots angling back toward the shooter reduce recoil best of all those I've tried so far, but they drastically increase the noise and blast back toward the shooter. I wear earplugs under my electronic muffs when shooting almost anything today. The 300 winmag barrel I have coming now has the tank style brake already installed. The only thing I have shot with that style brake is the big 50 BMG. It sure works on that. On the 375 barrel, he used a type of locktite that is not normally used in gunsmithing, he said the brake would have to be heated to remove it. I guess the swirling blast coming out of the bore might eventually loosen the brake if not treated like that.

[Roger SS]

It varies by location. The last one I paid to have done cost me 65.00 to thread the muzzle and turn the brake down to match the contour of the barrel. Done by an old Oklahoma Highway Patrol armorer and he did a superb job. I have the ability to thread my own barrels and have done several, but with the 375, I wanted it bored 20 thousandths over bullet size and he had the correct equipment to do it. I've tried several different styles of brakes and some work better than others. The brakes with slots angling back toward the shooter reduce recoil best of all those I've tried so far, but they drastically increase the noise and blast back toward the shooter. I wear earplugs under my electronic muffs when shooting almost anything today. The 300 winmag barrel I have coming now has the tank style brake already installed. The only thing I have shot with that style brake is the big 50 BMG. It sure works on that. On the 375 barrel, he used a type of locktite that is not normally used in gunsmithing, he said the brake would have to be heated to remove it. I guess the swirling blast coming out of the bore might eventually loosen the brake if not treated like that.

Good stuff.Those big calibers you mentioned probably do much better with a muzzle brake. I'm actually starting to wonder now if the 7mm Rem Mag needs one. (Being a newbie to rifles) I see the 7mm Mag recoil (on YouTube) doesn't look anywhere near that of the larger calibers you mentioned. I've become intrigued with the round in my research. Here's an idea. Shoot it for myself and find out. lol
Problem: Can't find the model X-Bolt I'm looking for anywhere.

[Blitzfike]

I have a 7mag and it isn't too bad. A little more recoil than a 150 grain 30-06, but not as bad to me as shooting a 200 or 220 grain 30-06 load. A good recoil pad is a must on any of the bigger stuff. I have a few 45-70 rifles and they punish with the really heavy bullets. 350 grain in the 45-70 talks, but the 405 grain stuff kicks you in the pants. Shooting the 405 grain 45-70 out of a Sharps with a long barrel isn't too bad. Lots of weight in the rifle to absorb the recoil. The same load in my 95 marlin is painful and in my NEF handi rifle it kills on both ends. I have an Encore barrel in 45-70 and I was surprised at how nice it is to shoot with the 350 grain stuff. It seems to have less felt recoil than the marlin lever gun. I shoot a lot of milsurp rifles and to me the 8mm mauser is the worst for recoil with surplus ammo. I shoot cast bullets out of it with a reduced load and like it pretty well that way, and I get pretty good accuracy as well. My last 300 win mag was a Remington 770. They really cut corners when they built that series. The bolt stop on the one I had was very soft and soon wouldn't retain the bolt when working it quickly. I tried to get a replacement but they only sell to gunsmiths. I ended up welding it up, machining it back to the correct size and heat treating it. My son has it now and is using it for a long range target rifle. Blitzfike

[Roger SS]

I have a 7mag and it isn't too bad. A little more recoil than a 150 grain 30-06, but not as bad to me as shooting a 200 or 220 grain 30-06 load. A good recoil pad is a must on any of the bigger stuff. I have a few 45-70 rifles and they punish with the really heavy bullets. 350 grain in the 45-70 talks, but the 405 grain stuff kicks you in the pants. Shooting the 405 grain 45-70 out of a Sharps with a long barrel isn't too bad. Lots of weight in the rifle to absorb the recoil. The same load in my 95 marlin is painful and in my NEF handi rifle it kills on both ends. I have an Encore barrel in 45-70 and I was surprised at how nice it is to shoot with the 350 grain stuff. It seems to have less felt recoil than the marlin lever gun. I shoot a lot of milsurp rifles and to me the 8mm mauser is the worst for recoil with surplus ammo. I shoot cast bullets out of it with a reduced load and like it pretty well that way, and I get pretty good accuracy as well. My last 300 win mag was a Remington 770. They really cut corners when they built that series. The bolt stop on the one I had was very soft and soon wouldn't retain the bolt when working it quickly. I tried to get a replacement but they only sell to gunsmiths. I ended up welding it up, machining it back to the correct size and heat treating it. My son has it now and is using it for a long range target rifle. Blitzfike

The overall consensus I've gathered thusfar is pretty much to avoid Remington these days. That's one of the many reasons I went with Savage. Also got an X-Bolt Medallion .30-06 and a Ruger American .30-06 Both have really nice recoil pads but are both really light weight. Haven't fired either yet. Glad to hear 7mm Mag generally isn't too punishing. lol

[dnsmith]

The overall consensus I've gathered thusfar is pretty much to avoid Remington these days.

not necessarily. I have a 2011 vintage Remington 700P and it is the most accurate rifle I own. It really is a tackdriver with a wide variety of ammo. that said, it did not feed or extract consistently at all when I got it. I have run some loaded rounds through it about 75-100 times (load up the mag with 3, work the bolt and run them all through the gun, repeat), and this has broken it in to some extent. It seems to be extracting reliably now. But you should see how scarred up the rounds became almost immediately. As far as I can tell, the internal magazine and feed ramp are basically unfinished. I have a 1997 vintage Remington Sendero that has much better finish, it does not scar up rounds that you cycle through it.

So basically what I'm saying is ... yes and no re: Remington quality. they are definitely cutting some corners on production costs these days, but I think that their barrels, at least for the heavy-barrel guns, are actually still as good as they've ever been. The x-mark trigger sux, but if you can get one of their guns with the 40x trigger, it's pretty good.

I did just take delivery of a Savage 110 FCP in .300 mag. Savages have a completely different feel than remingtons, it is somewhat hard to compare them. The Savage was feeding perfectly right out of the box, though. The centerfeed magazine is a good design. Also, the accu-trigger on this one puts remington triggers to shame. But ... the barrel doesn't fit perfectly straight in the stock channel.

long story short ... there's something to be desired in all of the factory rifles these days. But 100% of the Savages I have bought have shot well

[Roger SS]

not necessarily. I have a 2011 vintage Remington 700P and it is the most accurate rifle I own. It really is a tackdriver with a wide variety of ammo. that said, it did not feed or extract consistently at all when I got it. I have run some loaded rounds through it about 75-100 times (load up the mag with 3, work the bolt and run them all through the gun, repeat), and this has broken it in to some extent. It seems to be extracting reliably now. But you should see how scarred up the rounds became almost immediately. As far as I can tell, the internal magazine and feed ramp are basically unfinished. I have a 1997 vintage Remington Sendero that has much better finish, it does not scar up rounds that you cycle through it.

So basically what I'm saying is ... yes and no re: Remington quality. they are definitely cutting some corners on production costs these days, but I think that their barrels, at least for the heavy-barrel guns, are actually still as good as they've ever been. The x-mark trigger sux, but if you can get one of their guns with the 40x trigger, it's pretty good.

I did just take delivery of a Savage 110 FCP in .300 mag. Savages have a completely different feel than remingtons, it is somewhat hard to compare them. The Savage was feeding perfectly right out of the box, though. The centerfeed magazine is a good design. Also, the accu-trigger on this one puts remington triggers to shame. But ... the barrel doesn't fit perfectly straight in the stock channel.

long story short ... there's something to be desired in all of the factory rifles these days. But 100% of the Savages I have bought have shot well

Good info. Thanks. Well, i also have two Marlin XL7 guns and both have weaker extraction compared to my new Savages. Marlin (now owned by Remington) uses MIM parts in critical areas of the bolt and extractor is a MIM part too! Got 3 Savages recently. 2 of them, the stocks afre perfect. My long range hunter 7mm Mag...the stock is touching the barrel. Easy fix though, I believe with some sandpaper and elbow grease. I know what you mean about the "feel" though. Savage vs. Marlin X gun. No comparison.

[Blitzfike]

I've got an old Remington 700 BDL that is smooth as glass. I did adjust the trigger to fit my particular feel, but no complaints about it at all. I have an old Winchester 70 series in 30-06 that is my primary deer gun. When I got it, it patterned rather than grouped. I got it cheap for that reason. Examining it, I found where someone had put a sling swivel screw up against the barrel. I cut that off and like magic, it started grouping pretty tightly. At the range one day one of the guys was using a bipod that clamped onto the barrel. He was having great difficulty getting the scope set. I showed him the difference in point of impact between the barrel not being pushed up by the bipod and with. On that particular rifle, it was about a 12 inch shift at 100 yards. Just goes to show what free floating can accomplish... Another thing I have observed is that if the scope is not leveled properly it can have a significant effect on point of impact at longer ranges. I'm an old guy, but I learn something new every day. (I like it that way) Blitzfike

[Roger SS]

I've got an old Remington 700 BDL that is smooth as glass. I did adjust the trigger to fit my particular feel, but no complaints about it at all. I have an old Winchester 70 series in 30-06 that is my primary deer gun. When I got it, it patterned rather than grouped. I got it cheap for that reason. Examining it, I found where someone had put a sling swivel screw up against the barrel. I cut that off and like magic, it started grouping pretty tightly. At the range one day one of the guys was using a bipod that clamped onto the barrel. He was having great difficulty getting the scope set. I showed him the difference in point of impact between the barrel not being pushed up by the bipod and with. On that particular rifle, it was about a 12 inch shift at 100 yards. Just goes to show what free floating can accomplish... Another thing I have observed is that if the scope is not leveled properly it can have a significant effect on point of impact at longer ranges. I'm an old guy, but I learn something new every day. (I like it that way) Blitzfike

Thanks for sharing as some of us will learn from you. i understand a free floated barrel is very important. you don't want any external pressures at all on the barrel. That's why I was initially disappointed when i picked up my new Savage 111 Long Range Hunter in 7mm Rem Magnum. I could immediately see the stock was touching the side of the barrel up front. Members here told me to separate the action and stock and try to refit....but if not, just sand off some material from the synthetic stock that is touching the barrel.