Newbie with Cracked Barrel Nut

[fgw_in_fla]

WHOA!!!!
I'd have to say that's a defect. You might as well break it down. Your going to need a new nut & to set up your headspace. Ask around if maybe someone will loan you their HS go / no go set.
Did you already get a new nut?

By the way, this would be a great time to change to that other caliber you've been wanting..... Might as well get the addiction going full force.

[fgw_in_fla]

Hey antsi - what city / state are you in?

[acemisser]

Isn't that what us forum vultures do? .....and you just wait, in three months Acemisser will have more posts than you!

You bully-----lmao

[acemisser]

Here are the pictures requested above:

#1 - the cracked nut
http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s548/alathIN/bth_CrackedBarrelNut_zps285bc5b9.jpg?t=1356661672
#2 and #3 - here's me twisting the barrel easily back and forth. I'm pretty sure I should not be able to do this ;-) http://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s548/alathIN/bth_CrackedBNtwist2_zpsb04ad646.jpg?t=1356661706ht tp://i1305.photobucket.com/albums/s548/alathIN/bth_CrackedBNtwist1_zps4df1db98.jpg?t=1356661700

If you look at it close-it looks to me as if someone tried to get the nut off using a chisel and hammer
and split the nut..That aint no factory defect...You can see something was used on it....But whatever
like they say you needs a new nut and head space reset....

[Blue Avenger]

Change the barrel? You guys see where his fingers are? That is an old 110 and the new barrels do not fit it! The nut will still be the same thread.

[antsi]

It's a 30-06, my favorite caliber, so no need to change.

Re, chisel marks: When I first took the rifle apart, the barrel was loose enough to flop around by hand, but the barrel nut was tight on the barrel. At one point, I "flopped" the barrel too far, and couldn't get it loose again. The barrel was then too far in to the receiver, and I could no longer get the bolt to close. This was inconvenient since I was doing the trigger work according to the illustrations in the FAQ article. In order to loosen the barrel, I put a wood block into the crack in the nut and tapped it with a hammer to loosen it. So it is possible that I made the mark you are noticing - however, the crack was already there. I did pick up the rifle used in a private sale from someone I didn't know, so who knows what they did to it before I bought it.

I do have a possibility of picking up some used go no-go guages. If that falls through, I may be looking to borrow. ;-)

[ellobo]

What Blue Avenger is talking about is that the bolt head will not accept the newer barrel breech end. Plus it seems your barrel has fixed open sights on it which may or may not end up sitting over the centerline of the barrel in a vertical position once your headspace is reset.

[Blue Avenger]

put a fired case in it. tighten it up. back the barrel off just enough to line up the sights again. lock the nut.

[mnbogboy2]

No dis-respect but you shouldn't take a chance with a fired case here....Your go & no go gauge are a must if you plan on re-aligning the sights...And both gauges apply here...because using the fired case method it may be possible that it tightens on a fired case at 1/2 turn off ..At 20tpi that is 25 thou.....way too much head space...If you do decide to use this method then at least check your end result with a no-go gauge...

If the barrel was correctly head spaced before the nut split, then you should be able to get the iron sights in correct position with the new nut using an actual gauge set...If iron sights are of no concern then the "fired case" method will work but obviously you wouldn't be backing it off more than a small fraction of a turn (if any).

BTW after the nut split it seems to have "sprung" off center...use care not to damage the barrel threads in removing it..You may have to split it again..

Good Luck,
Randy

[jibben]

Trying to follow this. the difference is? Your both using something to tighten the bbl against. Then your aligning the sights straight up. The barrel would bottom against the bolt with nothing in the chamber, it would be impossible to tighten the barrel to much as in a full turn then you would both have to loosen the bbl a bit at most if the sights were off. So I not sure how either method could lead to disaster.

[geargrinder]

No dis-respect but you shouldn't take a chance with a fired case here....Your go & no go gauge are a must if you plan on re-aligning the sights...And both gauges apply here...because using the fired case method it may be possible that it tightens on a fired case at 1/2 turn off ..At 20tpi that is 25 thou.....way too much head space...If you do decide to use this method then at least check your end result with a no-go gauge...

If the barrel was correctly head spaced before the nut split, then you should be able to get the iron sights in correct position with the new nut using an actual gauge set...If iron sights are of no concern then the "fired case" method will work but obviously you wouldn't be backing it off more than a small fraction of a turn (if any).

BTW after the nut split it seems to have "sprung" off center...use care not to damage the barrel threads in removing it..You may have to split it again..

Good Luck,
Randy

The reason Greg's (Blue Avenger) suggestions will work in this instance is because this barrel has already been matched to this action. All you need to do is get it to where the sights are lined up and the heaspace is set to where it has been for the last 40+ years.

I piece of brass fired from this chamber is more likely to get the sights or stampings lined up than a set of gauges.

[mnbogboy2]

The length of a fired case and a go gauge may be altogether different...For instance if the fired case came from the suspect rifle and the barrel was actually partially turned out when it was fired we may have a case that has stretched beyond allowable limits...If this fired case came from a chamber that was on the "long" side to begin and the barrel was backed off farther to align the sights, you could easily create a condition with excessive head space.....

If a person has to use a fired case to set head space for the purpose of aligning iron sights then I would strongly recommend that it be full length re-sized first...Absence of a no go gauge could be improvised by placing two layers of scotch tape on the case head (or about .006 shim)....Not an exact science but most likely close enough for this task..

To put it another way...A fired case will work only if it came from the same gun and the original chamber condition was within tolerance....I guess I always try to err on the safety side....

Sorry for the confusion,
Randy

[mnbogboy2]

Another note to the OP...It would be a good idea to examine the thread condition of this barrel and action if you have any idea that it may have been fired with the cracked nut...

Good Luck,
randy

[antsi]

Yes, I was wondering if the iron sights would line up after I reset the headspace. I have the gun scoped so it wouldn't matter if they were off, other than looking a bit odd. I was wondering if it might do something strange to the barrel harmonics to have a front sight sitting there at an odd angle - guess I will just have to see how it shoots.

[scope eye]

Did you ever get the barrel nut I set you?

Dean

[antsi]

Did you ever get the barrel nut I set you?

Dean

Yes, just came in today. Thanks! I will pm you soon.

[J.Baker]

What Blue Avenger is talking about is that the bolt head will not accept the newer barrel breech end. Plus it seems your barrel has fixed open sights on it which may or may not end up sitting over the centerline of the barrel in a vertical position once your headspace is reset.

+1 That "lump" in the barrel under the rear sight is a real good indicator that this is probably a pre-1966 rifle (mfg from 1959-1965). These used a completely different bolt assembly than what today's (1966+) 110's use. Note the differences in the bolt head, ejector and extractor in the following photo's.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/MrFurious45833/FAQs/BoltComparison2.jpg
1965 and earlier bolt on top, 1966 and later bolt on bottom


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/MrFurious45833/FAQs/BoltComparison1.jpg
1965 and earlier on left, 1966 and later on right.

The breech of the barrel on the 1965 and earlier guns had a recess to accept the "snout" on the early bolt heads, so headspacing them correctly wasn't simply a matter of screwing in the barrel until it hit the go gauge.

[mnbogboy2]

I have had the barrel off two of my pre-65s and yes I headspaced them exactly the way I head space the more modern ones...I understand that if a person cut a new chamber on one then the recess for the bolt head must be cut before any finish chambering...But I can not see how actual head spacing would be any different...Please explain...I am always open to new and improved ideas especially when safety is at stake.
Randy

[geargrinder]

I have had the barrel off two of my pre-65s and yes I headspaced them exactly the way I head space the more modern ones...I understand that if a person cut a new chamber on one then the recess for the bolt head must be cut before any finish chambering...But I can not see how actual head spacing would be any different...Please explain...I am always open to new and improved ideas especially when safety is at stake.
Randy

If you are headspacing the original barrel you'd be fine, but if you are headspacing a different barrel there are other clearance issues to pay attention to.

You have to maintain clearance around the bolt snout to the counterbore of the chamber or it will prevent the extractor from working properly.

There is a clearance between the front of the lugs and the breech of the barrel. You need them close enough to add safety during a pierced primer or case head separation, but still enough room to small debris from preventing function.

[antsi]

Thanks for the great info. As I am following this, it sounds like there are "special issues" with the older guns that apply if you're putting a new barrel on. However, since I am simply re-installing the original factory barrel, I should be able to follow normal barrel installation / headspace procedures?

PS - Mr Furious is correct - I wasn't aware of it, but it does appear this is an old style rifle. The trigger group and barrel bulge were clues. And looking at the bolt pictures you posted, I definitely have the older style bolt. I bought this rifle used in an apparently unfired, or very little-fired condition and I had no idea how old it was.