Short vs long action Question

[Majja13]

Ok I have always herd that short actions are better because they are stiffer. Is this true? And if so how come? I am just a bit curious. I am going to be building a 260 rem and have read where there seams to be some that say build it on a long action so you can have a little better room to seat the longer bullets out.

Thanks
Majja

[helotaxi]

With a Savage short action you have over 2.9" available in the magazine without feeding issues. Your limiting factor usually ends up being how the barrel throat is cut and where you hit the lands.

That said, there is nothing wrong with building on a long action provided that you don't mind the extra bolt throw and the likelihood that you'll have to come off the rifle to work the action to keep from hitting yourself in the nose with the bolt.

[82boy]

Ok I have always herd that short actions are better because they are stiffer. Is this true?
No.


And if so how come?

There comes a point where an action is as stiff as it needs to be and anything more is only overkill, The Savage repeater in either long or short action is as stiff as it needs to be. To ad to this, if you copair actions, look at the action screw spacing of a 110 long action, it is still shorter than a Remington 700 short action. There is no gain in accurcy with a short action. There is a longer bolt through, wich some of this can be removed by using a 223 front baffel.



I am just a bit curious. I am going to be building a 260 rem and have read where there seams to be some that say build it on a long action so you can have a little better room to seat the longer bullets out.
Thanks
Majja
This only matters is you plan on feeding this with a magazine. If your single shot shooting it makes no diference. With a long action the magazine box is longer, and yes you can seat the bullets further out, and feed them through the magazine. Many have done this for this reason.

[Roger SS]

Very interesting. Mabe this is partly why the US military went from .30-06 to .308 More reliable feeding from magazine. (Newbie speculation)

[txbdyguard]

I have a 260 on a short action and I seat bullets to the MAX C.O.L. and haven't had any feeding or accuracy issues. I used to over think stuff and it wound up costing me more than it should. Pick the one you want and what works best for you and roll with it.

[helotaxi]

Very interesting. Mabe this is partly why the US military went from .30-06 to .308 More reliable feeding from magazine. (Newbie speculation)

They went to the .308 because they were able to duplicate the military .30-06 load in a lighter cartridge that was less expensive to produce. The same money bought more rounds and a soldier could carry more rounds for a given weight.

[americanstrat98]

If you don't mind bolt throw, go with the long action. The real plus is that you can elongate those bullets and pack the powder in. You will have exactly what you want, vs if you buy a short you will always be wondering.

+1 to helotaxi and 82boy

[Majja13]

Gentelmen thank you for all the great info. This conversation actually started over a few beers at a buddy's house on why is it a short action would be stiffer than a long action. could not really figure out the physics of or it. But then again that could of been the beer talking.

[txbdyguard]

The long action would have more flex due to the increased length of unsupported area in the middle. But shouldn't be a factor for anything it chambers.

[BoilerUP]

I love my 223AI built on a 110 long action...

[jonbearman]

I have a 7.62x39mm and a .260 on long actions. They work good.

[PaprHead]

Just learning about these rebuilds so please forgive me if I ask a question I should know the answer to. Wouldn't the maximize cartridge length be limited by the chamber in the barrel. Am considering a 260 remington build and wondered if you could ever have a cartridge length with 260 that a short action couldn't handle. Thanks

[Roger SS]

They went to the .308 because they were able to duplicate the military .30-06 load in a lighter cartridge that was less expensive to produce. The same money bought more rounds and a soldier could carry more rounds for a given weight.

Ah yes indeed. Does the .30-06 still have range and power advantages over the .308? I'm guessing the answer is yes esp. with heavier bullets otherwise it still wouldn't be around after 106 years.

[scythefwd]

Roger, the 30-06 the military uses isnt the same as the loads we get on the civillian market.

The .308 was made to be a lighter in weight version of the 30-06 the M1 Garand shot, which it replicates perfectly. With its higher capacity, the 30-06 is capable of 1-200 fps more throughout the load ranges using slower burning powders, which were NOT usable in the M1 due to the pressure it would have at the gas port and the resulting bent oprod.

[helotaxi]

The real plus is that you can elongate those bullets and pack the powder in.

Nice thing about a Savage short action is that you can load a .308 based case so long that the bullet is barely in the case and powder capacity is at its max without having to worry about going to a long action. I've hit the lands with VLDs in my .243 without mag or action length issues and COAL in the 2.9+" range.

The long action is not as rigid as the short action, however it is still more rigid than it needs to be. The long bolt throw on my hunting rifle (older long action .243) is slightly annoying. My main complaint about the long actions is trying to mount a scope. With most newer scopes having a very short main tube, you have to find extended bases or go to a tactical type rail to mount a scope on one.

[BoilerUP]

The long bolt throw on my hunting rifle (older long action .243) is slightly annoying

Use a 204/223 extended front bolt baffle and the bolt throw will only be 1/4" longer than a short action.

[Roger SS]

Roger, the 30-06 the military uses isnt the same as the loads we get on the civillian market.

The .308 was made to be a lighter in weight version of the 30-06 the M1 Garand shot, which it replicates perfectly. With its higher capacity, the 30-06 is capable of 1-200 fps more throughout the load ranges using slower burning powders, which were NOT usable in the M1 due to the pressure it would have at the gas port and the resulting bent oprod.

Interesting facts about these big 'ol .30-06 missiles. thank you.

[freak007]

Use a 204/223 extended front bolt baffle and the bolt throw will only be 1/4" longer than a short action.

I don't want to hijack, but is there a thread with more details (pics?) on this?

[BoilerUP]

I don't want to hijack, but is there a thread with more details (pics?) on this?

I've got a 223AI built on a long action, and use the extended bolt baffle.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/avboiler11/2986440c.jpg

I measured the bolt throw length of my 223AI with my 10FP that wears a 260 barrel, and the long action with extended baffle was only 1/4" longer than the 10FP bolt throw.

I can get more pictures if you'd like...

[thirty06]

The extended baffle only works if you have a cartridge block in the mag.
Otherwise the bolt won't go back far enough to pick up a cartridge.