Truing and timing an action

[scythefwd]

Frank, the idea is that its been cut perpendicular to the threading.. where there may be not be a perfectly perpendicular cut on the factory. I did it mainly because I was going to a stainless barrel and lug and wanted the nut to match.

As to putting a good trigger on it, I think the factory one will do just fine. A crisp 2.75lb trigger is plenty light for paper punching or field work. I never understood the infatuation people have with very light triggers... And yes, I've handled a nice benchrest trigger, a 2 oz timney I think would qualify wouldnt it?

[davemuzz]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v675/gcidso123/funny%20pic/emocons/thbraingrater_210.jpg

I love this pic.....I'm stealing it for future use!!!

[americanstrat98]

Making an action true. A proper gunsmith won't warp the receiver while removing it, but I've defianetly seen a joe shmo screw one good.

Making your action Concentric!!
Putting the action on a device that we use to make the action perfectly centered on the lathe, or within .0001" You simply recut the threads in the action to center them with center line. then you take a reamer and run it through race ways in order to make sure your bolt lines up with center line, that way your firing pin is always center line, then you face off the receiver to be perfectly square to center line then you machine the barrel lug to make it true around its full perimeter, then you check the threading on the barrel to make sure its true to center, then you check the Lock Nut(if your going to use a lock nut, keep in mind you don't NEED to use it) Square the locknuts rear face and the threads with center line. Assemble rifle to Saami specs or benchrest specs.

Now, doing all that takes time, hours and money, generally 65$ an hour plus tool sharpening,and handling fees.

You may or may not notice a HUge difference but there will definately be a risen capability of the rifle. The problem is, you can't max out the actions potential then negate the lapping and truing of the rings, High quality Optics, proper torque values, quality bedding, trigger function and safety functions. The darn thing needs to be 100%. If you get 90% of the work done, but still use hornady factory ammo then the other 10% that is the fine art of BR reloading will keep you from those possible sub MOA groupings at 1000. Is it worth it?

Heck Yeah it is, but eventually the full shebang needs to be brought up to spec. If it's a chromoly action you can have a scope base soldered on to the action, then trued in an end mill, then refinished. THat is as good as it gets with stock actions and scope mounting.

[FW Conch]

"98", Thank You for your service, and "GREAT POST and REPLY" ! :) ... Jim

[tomme boy]

But that has nothing to do with the so called Timing and truing that is being done by SSS. The actions are warped from the factory from heat treat. That is the Truing that is being done. Timing is re cutting the leadin on the lugs and adjusting the primary extraction on the bolt.

I'll bet that Fred does a lot more than this to his own bench guns. He more than likely does a real truing of the threads and mills the face of the bolt among other things. When he was chanrging what was it 100$ to do the T&T is was not too bad. But the new price is not worth it.

[82boy]

I'll bet that Fred does a lot more than this to his own bench guns. .
Nope, you assume wrong, he does the same work to his guns that he does to any customers guns. Also to add there is a LOT more done that what you think.

[tomme boy]

I had him do a 223 build for me. I could not tell any difference in it when I got it back. I know for a fact he did not true up the face of the bolt. There was a scratch in it when I sent it in. It was still there when I got it back. And I paid for the T&T. The action was sitting on the rear of the trigger housing when It is supposed to be floated. Trigger was about 5lbs I asked for him to set it at 2lbs. That was his competition trigger. No instruction or wrenches with it like it says. The bedding job had epoxy all over the top of the stock and on the barrel. I emailed him about the issues and waited for a month to hear from them. I tried calling NO ONE would answer. So I just fixed the stuff myself even though I paid him to do it.

[82boy]

I had him do a 223 build for me. I could not tell any difference in it when I got it back. I know for a fact he did not true up the face of the bolt. There was a scratch in it when I sent it in. It was still there when I got it back. And I paid for the T&T. The action was sitting on the rear of the trigger housing when It is supposed to be floated. Trigger was about 5lbs I asked for him to set it at 2lbs. That was his competition trigger. No instruction or wrenches with it like it says. The bedding job had epoxy all over the top of the stock and on the barrel. I emailed him about the issues and waited for a month to hear from them. I tried calling NO ONE would answer. So I just fixed the stuff myself even though I paid him to do it.

Well I am sorry you havent had a better experince. You are truly the only person I have heard of that was not satisfied with the end resualt of a SSS T&T job. Personaly I think I would have made more than 1 e-mail, or would have called untill I got through, before I would setteled, with something I was dissatisfied with. I have owned several SSS competition triggers, and have used them for years, and when properly set up they are excellant. I have played with both ends of the spectrum, and usualy set my as low as they would go, but I find it odd that yours was set at around 5 lbs, the ones I have used would only go as high as 2 lbs, perhaps you got a bad one. If I read what your saying you upset because of bedding issues, (Epoxie on barrel and stock, and the tang not being floated.) and the way the trigger was set up, (set too heavy, and no instructions.) but the only thing you say anything about how the T&T job is that you had a scratch on the bolt head that you believe should have been removed, besides that how does the T&T job preform. What the OP is looking for is information on the benifits/or lack of of a T&T job.

[tomme boy]

Some people think the action is supposed to have a real true job. When I had mine done it was being told that it was having a real truing job. Now that most know what is really being done or not done, it helps to inform people so they can make their own decisions.

Oh, and settle, I have still not settled as you can see. It has been more than 4 years and I still have not heard back from them. I know Fred has read this post by now, how about speaking up!

[americanstrat98]

What a Gunsmith calls T&T'ing an action is there business, and it usually involves what they feel needs to be done. I'm not going to pee on anyones business, some folks gotta make a living. I also will not condemn or condone the cutting of bolt seating in receivers or any other modification a sponsor provides.

Let me say this, At 65$ and hour(that sounds like a gunsmith makes money, but really it is very hard to understand how deep the rabbit hole gets if you've not worked a lathe, or made the cutting bits, or made an action concentric between centers.

i used words like "simply" although there is nothing simple about it for the layman. Several hours go into truing an action and really all we are doing is straightening things up. If you fine folks want to know a little tip, shoot your rifles with handloads before you go getting your T&T services. Most savage rifles have between .001-.002 runout (not being centered) Most other american manufacturers can have between .003.008" of runout.

Savage Actions by design are cheap, and easy to make accurately (stay with me here)

They are made from extruded metal, so the action is made from a solid bar of steel, Very easy to machine, hence the low runout number of .001-.002". REmington eventually copied the savage idea, but it was savage's first. Woo Hoo.

This means that over all the savages are some of the "Truest" actions out there. They may not be the stiffest, strongest, and absolute kings of BR but if an excellent shooter is behind one, it can definately put up the best of fights.

The services provided by gunsmiths are no doubt worth it. You're paying for an expert to smooth things up, just like you take a ferrari to a ferrari shop to have it tuned instead of Midas. Have no qualms for the price you're paying, it's usually worth its weight in gold. Most general gunsmiths I know are so backed up they can't keep up and they still make meager wages, not to mention the beating they take daily bc a person bought a 75$ rifle and can't reason why a barrel costs 150$ to thread, chamber, shoulder, and put it on.

It takes thousands of hours of work to learn how to be a proper smith, it takes that same experience to learn machining, stock carving, refinishing, polishing, hand inletting, plus all the accuracy mumbo jumbo. Most folks just slap a bolt handle and a cheap scope on their rifles. It takes money and experience to make a fine precision firearm not to mention learning how to shoot it.

[mattri]

Patrick, how many calls/e-mails do you think it should take to get a company to stand behind their product?

[Nandy]

I had Fred build my 7rem mag with a brake on it, do the T&T and I am very satisfied with the result. The bolt lift is awesome easy now. We did have a couple of admin hickups but all in all as it looks today they will be getting my business on the T&T when I get my new rifle.

[jonbearman]

I would send it to stockade stocks,Kevin Rayhill 1-308-432-5114 He has done me right everytime.

[stangfish]

I had him do a 223 build for me. I could not tell any difference in it when I got it back. I know for a fact he did not true up the face of the bolt. There was a scratch in it when I sent it in. It was still there when I got it back. And I paid for the T&T. The action was sitting on the rear of the trigger housing when It is supposed to be floated. Trigger was about 5lbs I asked for him to set it at 2lbs. That was his competition trigger. No instruction or wrenches with it like it says. The bedding job had epoxy all over the top of the stock and on the barrel. I emailed him about the issues and waited for a month to hear from them. I tried calling NO ONE would answer. So I just fixed the stuff myself even though I paid him to do it.


Did you take pictures? Would like to see the shoddy work.

[82boy]

Patrick, how many calls/e-mails do you think it should take to get a company to stand behind their product?

To start, no one said that the company would not stand behind their product. All that was said is that he made 1 (One.) e-mail, and attempet to call but was unable to get through. (dont know how many attemps, but I am guessing it was not many.) Well, in our world of technology, there are always possible failures. I think 1 email (As was stated.) is unfair to judge a company by. Could it be possible that that one e-mail got lost in cyberspace? I can't say I have ever had that much problem contacting SSS by phone, yes there may be sereveral call in a row that rang bussy, but usualy withen say 10 attemps I can get through.

I am just saying if I had a problem with a product, I would make more attemps that 1 email, and a couple of un-connected calls to get the problem resolved.

[tomme boy]

I had tried to call over 10 times. I sent a couple of emails. I have brought this up a few times here and there. Even on post SSS has spoken on. They just ignored me. They had my money and did not care anymore.

Kinda funny I can call ANY OTHER gunsmith or email them and they will either pick up the phone or get back to me within a couple of days. What really funny is this. Email SSS and tell them you want to place a order and they will get back to you in about 1-2 days. I have been waiting how many years now waiting for a reply from them?

Heck I can call Kevin and talk to him for an hour about nothing if I want to. He has just as long a wait to have a gun built as SSS. He does better work. He does not have any poster children that defend every little thing he does.

Like I said, How about it Fred or Lisa?

[J.Baker]

WTF does being able to get in touch with SSS on the phone have to do with Truing and Timing an Action? I'll tell ya......

N-O-T-H-I-N-G

If you've got a bone to pick with SSS (which clearly you do) then go talk to them about it. I'm sick and tired of seeing this stupid s#@t over and over and over again. Thread closed!