Please help me to get started with new suppressed build...

[too_many_hobbies]

My recent firearm projects have involved picking cartridges that would work relatively well in short barrels so that the overall length of the weapons would be reasonable for use with suppressors. These include an AR-15 in 300 Fireball with a 10.5" barrel (SBR) for subsonic loads, an AR-15 in 6.8 SPC with a 14.5" barrel with pinned suppressor mount (non SBR) for supersonic loads, and a T/C Encore in 7mm-08 with a 16" barrel and folding stock for a "truck gun". These suppressed weapons are used for predator hunting. I have not built a suppressed weapon for big game hunting because of the need for longer barrels to gain the advantage of magnum cartridges.

I now want to build a suppressed weapon for mule deer and elk hunting. I looked at factory and custom options and have settled on a Savage build which would be my first Savage.

After talking to Mr. Moreo, I was going to purchase a Savage Weather Warrior and change the barrel to one that has a contour and resulting muzzle diameter to support 5/8"-24 tpi for a suppressor mount until I went to a local sporting goods store and shouldered one. I did not like the feel of the stock even though I prefer stainless/composite weapons.

Now I am looking into just purchasing a Savage Action and assorted components and sending the package to Mr. Moreo for his magic. I want a stainless weapon with detachable magazine and AccuTrigger in 7 WSM. The closest action I find on the Savage website is number 18521 but it is carbon steel and has a hinged floorplate. Please tell me which way to turn. I assume I am back to buying a complete weapon and changing out the barrel, stock, etc.?

[rinodods]

Are you actually allowed to use suppressors on big game? Most states don't care for smallish game/varmints but usually restrict use of them for big game. You may indeed be looking at buying up parts to get what you want. Pretty sure though that a call to Northlander or Sharpshooter would go a long way to solving your issue. Good luck with the project. I'd love to go with a suppressed rifle if only for my pdog rig. Never wanted to go through all the paperwork and signatures to make it happen.

[dolomite_supafly]

Here (http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,20133.0.html) is some stocked actions for sale. The bottom one listed is a SS action for 7WSM.

If you plan on buying a stock there here (http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,1552.0.html) is listings for actions only.

Now all you need to do is find a barrel. There are some prefists listed in the classifieds but none of them are in 7WSM.

Dolomite

[too_many_hobbies]

Are you actually allowed to use suppressors on big game? Most states don't care for smallish game/varmints but usually restrict use of them for big game. You may indeed be looking at buying up parts to get what you want. Pretty sure though that a call to Northlander or Sharpshooter would go a long way to solving your issue. Good luck with the project. I'd love to go with a suppressed rifle if only for my pdog rig. Never wanted to go through all the paperwork and signatures to make it happen.

In Arkansas we can use suppressors and even machine guns on big game. I will always check with local game laws before hunting in other states. I use suppressors that have fixed mounts so that, when I screw the suppressor off the weapon, the mount serves as a thread protector.

The paperwork process is not that difficult, it is more of a long waiting game. Well worth the effort though. In my opinion, we should be encouraged to use them. Suppressors protect your hearing, they are neighbor friendly because they reduce the annoying loud noise of a gun shot, they take away about half of the recoil, the muzzle velocity is usually increased by about 25 fps due to freebore boost, and weapons are usually more accurate with a suppressor installed. The only disadvantage is that they add length and weight to the weapon. I am going to try to minimize the disadvantages by building a weapon as light weight as practical and by using a short action to help reduce the overall length.

[too_many_hobbies]

Here (http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,20133.0.html) is some stocked actions for sale. The bottom one listed is a SS action for 7WSM.

If you plan on buying a stock there here (http://savageshooters.com/SavageForum/index.php/topic,1552.0.html) is listings for actions only.

Now all you need to do is find a barrel. There are some prefists listed in the classifieds but none of them are in 7WSM.

Dolomite


Thank you for the links! At this time, I am overwhelmed with all the details with small/large shanks, which stocks work with which actions, etc.

[johnsopa]

too_many,

Most of my Savage rifles are threaded for my various AAC and YHM suppressors. Here are the barrels/cartridges that I have threaded:

In 5/8-24 thread:
Savage 308
Lothar Walther 308
Shilen 6.x47
Shilen 6BR (being rechambered to 243)
McGowen 260 "Savage-tized barrel" (on my Remington 700)

In 1/2-28 thread:
Shilen 223
Savage 204

If you order from Shilen, they charge $50 for threading the muzzle. I forget what LW charged. For the other barrels, I am fortunate to have one of the top benchrest gunsmiths in the world near me and he does muzzle threading on a quick turn around basis. I'm sure Fred at SSS will do it, too.

In terms of a hunting rifle for what you want, I think you will have a tough time matching the desirable characteristics of light weight, easy handling and good balance.

As you noted, to get a good 5/8-24 thread with enough shoulder, you'll want a decent barrel diameter (probably at least 0.8" at the point where it is going to be threaded). This typically means a regular varmint taper on a Savage or a Sendero profile on the Remington platform. This means the barrel will be much heavier compared to sporter weight barrels. Plus, you'll be hanging at least 1 lb of weight off the end (more like 1.5 lbs).

Since you're hunting, you'll want decent velocity, so you can't make the barrel too short. With a 308-class suppressor, you'll be adding about 8" to the end of the barrel. So, let's say you settle on a 20" barrel -- you'll end up with a 28" barrel, in effect.

And, with all this weight hanging at the muzzle end, the rifle will not shoulder well. Long range precision, suppressed rifles really work best with bipods (which all of mine have) or you'll want to add a LOT of weight to the buttstock to get it to balance -- and then you won't want to carry it around.

Hmm.... Sounds like I'm trying to talk you out of it.

Here's what I'd do... Have one, nice, stainless, lightweight hunting rifle (say, in 260 or 7mm-08) without a suppressor. Then, have a good suppressed long range precision platform for practice, maybe competition and certainly for fun!

Also, what I would do with the donor platform... Get a used stainless Savage locally. Sell the barrel. Maybe sell the stock if you are considering another stock. Then, you'll have a stainless action for under $300 or so.

[too_many_hobbies]

...In terms of a hunting rifle for what you want, I think you will have a tough time matching the desirable characteristics of light weight, easy handling and good balance...

Exactly the reason I have not tackled a magnum caliber until now.


...As you noted, to get a good 5/8-24 thread with enough shoulder, you'll want a decent barrel diameter (probably at least 0.8" at the point where it is going to be threaded). This typically means a regular varmint taper on a Savage or a Sendero profile on the Remington platform. This means the barrel will be much heavier compared to sporter weight barrels. Plus, you'll be hanging at least 1 lb of weight off the end (more like 1.5 lbs)...

Correct me if I am wrong, but 5/8" is .625" so wouldn't something like a Shilen S4 Savage Heavy Sporter with a muzzle diameter of .685" at the 26" point not work? I would shorten the barrel to 24" which would result in an even larger diameter because of the taper of the barrel.


...Since you're hunting, you'll want decent velocity, so you can't make the barrel too short. With a 308-class suppressor, you'll be adding about 8" to the end of the barrel. So, let's say you settle on a 20" barrel -- you'll end up with a 28" barrel, in effect...

I agree. My analysis of QuickLoad shows that, without a 23" or longer barrel for the 7 WSM, I might as well be shooting a .308.


And, with all this weight hanging at the muzzle end, the rifle will not shoulder well. Long range precision, suppressed rifles really work best with bipods (which all of mine have) or you'll want to add a LOT of weight to the buttstock to get it to balance -- and then you won't want to carry it around...

I have a special hunting place in mind for this weapon that I looked at the other day to purchase. There is a rock outcropping overlooking a valley where I can make shots out to about 400 yards. Of course, I will be using a good rest.


...Here's what I'd do... Have one, nice, stainless, lightweight hunting rifle (say, in 260 or 7mm-08) without a suppressor. Then, have a good suppressed long range precision platform for practice, maybe competition and certainly for fun!...

I have a Browning A-Bolt in 270 Winchester that I am very fond of. I want to build a longer range weapon that has the power to take a large animal like an elk as far as I can responsibly make the shot with a good rest. I hope my wife doesn't read this post because I will have to explain to her "again" why I need another gun. ;)

[diriel]

Have you considered a 300 win mag throated for the 200gr+ bullets? The article I link below has good info on both the 308 and the 300 win mag. The 300 win is near the bottom of the page. The gist is, a 190gr match load from a 22" barrel does not lose much too much velocity over the 26" tubes. I know I said 200+ but even some of the 180gr bullets from a win mag can hammer elk, so even a standard throated 300 win suppressed would most likely be pretty nice. The 300 win mag is relatively forgiving to load for a magnum.

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

Gary

[johnsopa]

Correct me if I am wrong, but 5/8" is .625" so wouldn't something like a Shilen S4 Savage Heavy Sporter with a muzzle diameter of .685" at the 26" point not work? I would shorten the barrel to 24" which would result in an even larger diameter because of the taper of the barrel.


You need a shoulder to tighten the suppressor against. Call AAC and ask them what their minimum shoulder diameter would be for 5/8"-24. I'll bet it's something like 1/16" - 3/32" on each side or a minimum barrel diameter of at least 0.75" and preferably > 0.8".

Read the section "Barrel Threading with a step-up bushing added" here (see the three pics too): http://www.ar15barrels.com/services.shtml

Here are AAC's barrel threading specs: http://www.silencerresearch.com/AAC%20Barrel%20Threading%20Specs.pdf

[Dinosdeuce]

I'm saving up for a build and want to add a suppressor as well. I'm looking at a Thunder Beast can 5/8-24, so I contacted them to ask what was the minimum barrel dia for the can to seat against. Their reply was .750"

Hope this helps.

[Dinosdeuce]

too_many,


If you order from Shilen, they charge $50 for threading the muzzle. I forget what LW charged. For the other barrels, I am fortunate to have one of the top benchrest gunsmiths in the world near me and he does muzzle threading on a quick turn around basis. I'm sure Fred at SSS will do it, too.




If you order from SSS make sure you specify the barrel be threaded 5/8-24. Do not assume it will be. I ordered a barrel and had them thread it and install a brake. The intent was to save for a suppressor for an install later. Last month surprise!! I found out the the barrel was threaded 5/8-18. Bottom line I had to pay a local smith to cut and re-thread the barrel to 5/8-24. Shame on me for not specifying which thread I wanted, thought the industry standard was 5/8-24. Nothing like paying for a service twice.

Just a heads up.

[too_many_hobbies]

You need a shoulder to tighten the suppressor against. Call AAC and ask them what their minimum shoulder diameter would be for 5/8"-24. I'll bet it's something like 1/16" - 3/32" on each side or a minimum barrel diameter of at least 0.75" and preferably > 0.8"...

The barrel on my 6.8 SPC measures .725" but it is also pinned with a reflex type mount for an AAC SPR/M4-6.8 suppressor.

I was thinking that the diameter of the tapered barrel would be close to .700" at the 24" point and would be sufficient for a Blackout mount, but after measuring the back of a Blackout, you are probably correct. I will call Mike Mers at AAC on Monday to find out the minimum recommended muzzle diameter.

The other detail is that the AAC 300SD that I am planning to purchase for this build has not been released and I don't even know the type mount(s) to be offered, even though 5/8-24 threads is probably a good bet. The AAC 300SD is rumored to be rated for 300 magnums, made from titanium, and weigh less than a 7.62SD.

[johnsopa]

Might also want to check out this one from Thunder Beast: http://thunderbeastarms.com/30p-1.php

[too_many_hobbies]

Have you considered a 300 win mag throated for the 200gr+ bullets? The article I link below has good info on both the 308 and the 300 win mag. The 300 win is near the bottom of the page. The gist is, a 190gr match load from a 22" barrel does not lose much too much velocity over the 26" tubes. I know I said 200+ but even some of the 180gr bullets from a win mag can hammer elk, so even a standard throated 300 win suppressed would most likely be pretty nice. The 300 win mag is relatively forgiving to load for a magnum.

http://www.tacticaloperations.com/SWATbarrel/

Gary


Interesting article! Tomorrow I will run several scenarios with different powders and bullet weights and see if QuickLoad indicates the same.

[too_many_hobbies]

I'm saving up for a build and want to add a suppressor as well. I'm looking at a Thunder Beast can 5/8-24, so I contacted them to ask what was the minimum barrel dia for the can to seat against. Their reply was .750"

Hope this helps.


Probably the same answer I will get from AAC. :(

[too_many_hobbies]

Might also want to check out this one from Thunder Beast: http://thunderbeastarms.com/30p-1.php


According to Silencer Research, the 30P was inferior to an AAC 7.62-SD for sound suppression, but the 30P-1 claims to be quieter than the original 30P. Since this is for hunting and the ballistic crack will always be there, I don't know that the suppression level is that critical. I just want it to be what I consider hearing safe. I am impressed with the weight of the 30P-1 and would rather have a thread-on for the utmost in accuracy for this build. At this time, all my suppressors are from AAC but I am going to consider the 30P-1, especially if AAC doesn't hurry up and release at least the specifications of the 300SD.

[Three44s]

I wish my state was as opened minded as yours!!!

We can own federally stamped cans here ...... we just can't legally shoot them ....... at anything!!! ....... not even thin air!


Here's a link that may also interest you:

ENJOY!!!


http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/


Three 44s

[Blue Avenger]

We can't even own them :(

[too_many_hobbies]

...Here's a link that may also interest you:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/...

One thing leads to another and it usually costs money... :o

I bought a Foxpro electronic call for calling up predators. My son and I started reading the posts on the Predator Masters Forum and noticed that a lot of the members used AR-15 weapons in several different calibers besides just 223. I promised my son that, if he would keep his grades up, we would build one together. That lead us to the AR15.com Forum where we found, to our surprise at the time, that suppressors are legal to own and hunt with. That lead us to the Silencer Talk Forum where we learned that, even though a silencer takes out about 95% of the muzzle report, you still have the ballistic crack with supersonic rounds. That lead us to the Quarterbore Forums where we gathered the information to build our 300 Fireball for the purpose of shooting subsonic ammunition (220 grain bullets at 1050-1060 fps) to negate the ballistic crack. The 300 Fireball required us to start reloading which lead us to several different websites, to build a reloading table, to build a better shooting table, to purchase a Farley Coaxial Rest and a better chronograph.

After experiencing the benefits of suppressors, we immediately wanted a suppressor on every weapon. As a matter of fact, the weapons that don't have a suppressor have become safe queens. Our suppressed weapons are so much more pleasant to shoot. For instance, we only owned one pistol until we got into suppressors. I never enjoyed shooting pistols because they were so darn loud. A suppressor makes a 9mm pistol as much fun to shoot as a .22.

Now, here we are trying to gather enough information to build a long range suppressed big game rig...

Where does it end? :-\

[Dinosdeuce]

quote]

One thing leads to another and it usually costs money... :o


Where does it end? :-\


[/quote]

When the bank account is empty!!!!!!!