Scope issues with Savage 11 and 111

[Roger SS]

The second Remington I had was a SPS Varmint in 223. It had a really excellent barrel on it, only problem was it was a 1:12 so I was maxed out at 55gr bullets and they are no good when shooting over 250 yards (lots of wind drift and reduced energy). So i sold it and switched to my Model 10PC which has a 1:9.25 twist and I am now shooting 75gr match ammo. The barrel on the classic was not so good. Much more copper fouling and it was too light and thus very sensitive to changes in the powder load.

Why the 2 barrels should be so different I don't know. Savage is pretty good on average for their barrel quality. All of the custom barrel makers do better and hold a higher consistent standard, but their products are definitely more expensive. It would be nice though if you could order your Savage from the factory with a known barrel on it without waiting 4, 6 or 9 months for it...I ordered my Savage, Marlins and Ruger American from Budsgunshop.com
In your opinion, is it sufficient to clean a barrel using a Hoppes Boresnake?
Use a boresnake during the barrel break -in process to prevent premature copper fouling?

[Westcliffe01]

go to gunwerks.com and look at their DIY series. They have this video of barrel cleaning http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TWg3B6pLrdw

I don't think you can expect a boresnake to do anything more than remove powder residue. Dissolving copper takes some mechanical work. Get a good quality cleaning rod that will not mark the bore and which has a proper ball bearing handle. Get Nylon brushes which will not mark the barrel and which will not leave false stains like brass or bronze. Get a bore guide for the cleaning rod, that you slide into the action so that you do not damage the throat. Tiptons makes a lot of this stuff and a bore guide is less than $20. Initially, one has to clean the bore a lot, until the copper fouling settles down. Match barrels foul very little in the first place but even they settle down.

Finally one can settle down into a routine where you basically only clean after 50 rounds or sometimes as much as 200. On a regular basis (after every outing) you run a lubed patch followed by a dry patch through the bore to counteract any tendency to get condensation built up or possibly something as whacky as a wasp trying to make a nest in the muzzle (don't laugh, peoples guns have blown up because of this). One does this whether you fired or not. This also allows for a proper bore inspection.

For removing copper there are proper solutions. Some of them are quite active so you need to be careful with that stuff to not get it into the action and places you can't get it out quickly. Most of them have ammonia as the active ingredient. Look at the system the Gunwerks guys use. We can afford that stuff and they have it all organized neatly and no mess.

[Roger SS]

go to gunwerks.com and look at their DIY series. They have this video of barrel cleaning http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TWg3B6pLrdw

I don't think you can expect a boresnake to do anything more than remove powder residue. Dissolving copper takes some mechanical work. Get a good quality cleaning rod that will not mark the bore and which has a proper ball bearing handle. Get Nylon brushes which will not mark the barrel and which will not leave false stains like brass or bronze. Get a bore guide for the cleaning rod, that you slide into the action so that you do not damage the throat. Tiptons makes a lot of this stuff and a bore guide is less than $20. Initially, one has to clean the bore a lot, until the copper fouling settles down. Match barrels foul very little in the first place but even they settle down.

Finally one can settle down into a routine where you basically only clean after 50 rounds or sometimes as much as 200. On a regular basis (after every outing) you run a lubed patch followed by a dry patch through the bore to counteract any tendency to get condensation built up or possibly something as whacky as a wasp trying to make a nest in the muzzle (don't laugh, peoples guns have blown up because of this). One does this whether you fired or not. This also allows for a proper bore inspection.

For removing copper there are proper solutions. Some of them are quite active so you need to be careful with that stuff to not get it into the action and places you can't get it out quickly. Most of them have ammonia as the active ingredient. Look at the system the Gunwerks guys use. We can afford that stuff and they have it all organized neatly and no mess.

Westcliffe,
Just wanted to thank you again for all your help, tips and knowledge. I enjoyed shooting on Saturday so much, I know this will be a fun hobby. (Range and hunting) As you know, I ordered a Savage 11 FCNS .308 but last night I decided to go a little crazy and ordered a Browning X-Bolt Medallion .30-06

[Westcliffe01]

The downside of owning multiple brands is that on some you can get great aftermarket parts and others not so much. It does depend of course whether you are totally happy with the gun when you get it. Remington, because of the sheer volume they sell (and possibly because of how much it takes to make them shoot) has a massive aftermarket market. Bolts, bolt handles, rails, stocks, etc etc. Savage support is not where it is for Remington, but you can get a lot of stuff.

Now take Thomson Center. Who was recently purchased by Smith and Wesson. Except for the single shot guns, which have a bit of a cult following, there is not much you can get for the rest of it. I have a fairly new Icon and it so happens the stock is cracked. Only place I can get a stock is the factory (for as much as I paid for the rifle). The barrel on mine develops copper fouling at a faster rate than I have seen on anything else I have owned. But, no-one is making prefit barrels for an Icon. This is a gun with terrific potential. 3 lug bolt, 60 degree bolt throw, picatinny rail machined integral to the receiver. But unfortunately, owning it and living with it is a different story.

I hope you don't regret any of your quick decisions. Browning and Ruger do make some fine firearms (not all of them) but if you later want to change anything is it sure to be harder. How important that is does depend on whether it does what you need it to do. If it does, the lack of alternatives may just be a minor irritation. I'm currently trying to stick as much as possible with a single system where I believe the factory is doing a reasonable job with quality and providing the customer with value, and that is Savage. Based on past experience, I never truly expect a new firearm to work perfectly out the box, which is why I am always happy when Savage exceeds that expectation.

They say though, that if you stroke a Swedish Mauser, you will be smitten for life.... Working the bolt on my Icon, makes my savages feel like an AK47... Its just that they shoot so darn good...