Hard Bolt Close/ Open Savage 116

[shooter_john]

I've got a Savage 116 that I put a McGowen 30-06 barrel on and it is consistenly tightest shooter I've got. But it's shooting is not all that is really tight, so is the bolt. It takes a fair amount of muscle to close the bolt, about the same amount if not a little more. I know there are a lot of variables that I'm up against such as shooting reloads, I put the rifle together, etc. but I can't figure out for the life of me what is causing my problems. Is it possible to get the head space too tight and cause the problem? And all of my handloads are full length sized, so I know that shouldn't be the problem either, but I just don't know. Thanks in advance for any help! And here's the rifle and her last group, just for fun...
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x212/shooter_john/Savage3006.jpg

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x212/shooter_john/30-06Group1230.jpg

My best load for this rifle is not particularly hot and I've never seen any signs of pressure. (Hornady 168gr BTHP over 47.5g Varget)
Thanks again guys!

[LG]

Headspace too tight is one possibility. How did you headspace the barrel when you installed it?

When you close the bolt on an empty chamber, does it close smoothly? Or is it hard to close?

Did you try to chamber a resized case (no primer, powder or bullet) to see if it chambers easily after resizing?

On your loaded rounds, did you check to see if the primers happen to be sitcking out a little?

[shooter_john]

Headspace too tight is one possibility. How did you headspace the barrel when you installed it? Sized case.

When you close the bolt on an empty chamber, does it close smoothly? YES.

Did you try to chamber a resized case (no primer, powder or bullet) to see if it chambers easily after resizing? Have not but I will give that a try.

On your loaded rounds, did you check to see if the primers happen to be sitcking out a little? They are flush.

[shooter_john]

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[steveinwv]

Did the resized case chamber by itself easily or not?

[LG]

I was waiting for you to let us know if a resized case (case only, not loaded round) chambers easily or not.

You said your handloads are full length resized. Also you mentioned that you used a sized case (I'm assuming a fired, full length resized case) to set headspace. Well, if it's hard to close the bolt on a full lentgh resized case, then probably you got the headspace a little bit too tight. If the resized case chambers easily, then it must be something else. Let's go one step at a time.

[Nor Cal Mikie]

Sounds like LG is on the right track. If you didn't use a Go/No Go gauge, then you've got the headspace set too tight.
Tape the back end of a full length sized case with 2 or 3 layers of scotch tape.
Measaure the case length with and without the tape. That way you'll know how much difference there is.
Set the headspace to that. Try a empty case in the chamber and see if the bolt closes easy. If it does, that's your problem. Now you'll have to set your dies to that spec. Just enough to set the shoulder back. Don't move that brass any more then needed.
I start with the gauges, then snug the barrel up from there to keep my brass from growing.

[shooter_john]

OK guys, I'm tracking now... I'm headed out of town for a couple of days, but I will do what you guys suggested when I get back home Sunday. What you've all said makes sense, and I'm guessing that's my problem. Will report back.

[BrentWin]

Your head space is a little tight and I wouldn't touch a thing. To me a stiff bolt is well worth it for that kind of accuracy. Set your dies so that they cam over when you resize. That will bump the shoulder back about another .001. That should make the bolt easier to close.

[Michadian]

With the data given, if you are shooting reloads, it is possible that your COL is just a bit too long. Can you chamber and then eject a live round? Just a thought.
Dick

[kenbo776]

I have had the same thing happen with my Model10 FCP. Never with factory loads, but with some of my reloads. When I first reloaded for this rifle, I full lenght resized . But got very poor accuracy because the rifle prefered a lot tighter fit in the loaded cases. So I backed off the die and started to size them to fit tighter . After I resized a couple cases I try them for fit in the rifle . I know that if the bolt has a little bit of resistance when I close it on round that I have gotten the sizing right. Not enough that I cannot close the bolt, but there is just a bit of effort required to close bolt. I do not have any problems extracting cases after firing . I have gotten groups under an inch at 200 yards reloading this way. The only downside is that my ammo might not work in another rifle since it is sized for my rifle.
I have been told that the best way to get best accuracy out of any given rifle is to neck size only, but so far I have not invested in that kind of die .

[shooter_john]

After much delay...
I tried a sized case, and it was hard to close the bolt on just like my live rounds, so I assume my headspace is indeed a little tight. But while I was tinkering, I also put a little bit of 600 grit lapping compound on the bolt head and raceways and worked the action for a several minutes, and that seemed to help a little bit. I think with the accuracy that I am getting, I will leave it alone (as several of you have recommeded) unless there is harm that could be done to me or the rifle. Thanks again for all of your help.

[dolomite_supafly]

If you are worried about it affecting accuracy there may be a fix that doen't affect it.

Back the barrel out a few more thousandths until it loads smoothly then when you load set the bullet seating die to make the rounds have a longer OAL by the same amount you changed in the barrel. This should give you a easier loading rifle while maintaing the accuracy you have now.

I know quite a few smiths who use a fired case with a piece of tape or two on the back to set headspace, I would back the barrel off and set the headspace using this method. Then measure the case with and without the tape on it. The difference should be what you add to the OAL of the loaded bullet to maintain your accuracy. It shouldn't be much and I seriously doubt the accuracy will be affected enough by the difference and I would try your loads now before changing anything.

Dolomite

[Stu_A]

Just a thought before you go changing too much - does your rifle chamber NEW unfired or resized brass or factory ammunition smoothly? If so you might not be bumping the shoulder back far enough when you resize your brass. The fact that you are able to close the bolt at all means that you are within a couple of thou. As mentioned earlier by others try now resetting your sizing die to the stage where you bump it back sufficiently to allow the bolt to close smoothly, I think hot loads aside that this will solve your bolt lift as well as the whole thing is just a little too tight as it is now. You have built a nice looking rifle that shoots well, thats not going to change but you will like it much better if it loads smoothly.

[shooter_john]

You have built a nice looking rifle that shoots well, thats not going to change but you will like it much better if it loads smoothly.

This is quite true... I will try bumping my dies back, and as a last resort I will re- headspace the barrel. But first I must get my shop back in order (the wife is always finding things that need to be "out of the house" so they end up invading my workspace). :'(

[criticalbass]

Long shot here, but is the bolt tight when closing on an empty chamber?

My 110 30-06 was bought used with the information that the bolt was tight. It was because the screw that goes in ahead of the trigger guard had been overtightened and was interfering with the bolt head.

Could you have created the same problem when you changed barrels? Worth a look. CB

[shooter_john]

Long shot here, but is the bolt tight when closing on an empty chamber?

My 110 30-06 was bought used with the information that the bolt was tight. It was because the screw that goes in ahead of the trigger guard had been overtightened and was interfering with the bolt head.

Could you have created the same problem when you changed barrels? Worth a look. CB


Nope... Smootj as can be on an empty chamber. But thanks just the same!

[Dirk]

After much delay...
I tried a sized case, and it was hard to close the bolt on just like my live rounds, so I assume my headspace is indeed a little tight. But while I was tinkering, I also put a little bit of 600 grit lapping compound on the bolt head and raceways and worked the action for a several minutes, and that seemed to help a little bit. I think with the accuracy that I am getting, I will leave it alone (as several of you have recommended) unless there is harm that could be done to me or the rifle. Thanks again for all of your help.

Is that group you posted at 25 yards? Or are we supposed to guess? How many shots in the group? I love it when you guys don't give all the details.

[shooter_john]

That particular group is 3 shots at 85 yards. It was raining that day and I couldn't get under cover and 100 yards, so I did the best I could at 85. Sorry for leaving that out.