Eliminating or dampening barrel harmonics

[scythefwd]

I almost hate to say this.....but.....sell those non-Savages rifles and replace 'em with.....well, you know.....an accurate rifle.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a212/davemuzz/MrClx5GMV_vPV24x9qh.png

Because the BOSS system allows you to shoot sub moa with just about any factory load? I understand this is a savage forum and all, but Savage doesn't have the corner on accurate rifles. I'd love to be able to go out and buy a couple of boxes of ammo, and by the end of the two boxes have it shooting sub-moa instead of taking my time and doing a ladder test a couple times (my savage is a 30-06, first ladder is 10 rounds each, 1gr incriments.. 43, 44, 45, 46,47... find the best couple, second ladder test is between the two best shooting groups, .2 gr incriments, then the last between the best two groups, thats NOT a small amout of time invested).

[wbm]

Savage doesn't have the corner on accurate rifles.

I know!! And therein lies the problem. They keep building them and I keep buying them and putting them in the gun case in the corner. Who knows perhaps someday my grandchildren will have the corner on accurate rifles. ;)

[davemuzz]

Because the BOSS system allows you to shoot sub moa with just about any factory load?

Well, in all fairness that's what the Boss system is suppose to do. Now, again....I don't own a Browning. So, I don't own the Boss system. I've never seen one actually being worked with, nor do I even know anyone who has actually shot one and "worked with" the boss system. So, I can't really tell you how well or how "not well" they either do or don't do. In other words, I have no opinion on 'em.

But, I do know that if I had a Browning, I would still reload for it. At the price of factory....I'm reloading. And, I buy rifles and handguns to shoot year round. Not just once a month to hunt with. Some guys do...and that's just fine as that's all the time they have. But for me...it's my hobby...my past time.



I understand this is a savage forum and all, but Savage doesn't have the corner on accurate rifles. I'd love to be able to go out and buy a couple of boxes of ammo, and by the end of the two boxes have it shooting sub-moa instead of taking my time and doing a ladder test a couple times (my savage is a 30-06, first ladder is 10 rounds each, 1gr incriments.. 43, 44, 45, 46,47... find the best couple, second ladder test is between the two best shooting groups, .2 gr incriments, then the last between the best two groups, thats NOT a small amout of time invested).

Your right. I have a Marlin and a few Winchesters that are incredibly accurate. The ladder testing is something that I do when working up a load to see where the sweet spots are. Again, I'd probably do it with a Browning as well. But again, this is my hobby...so time isn't an overriding factor.

FWIW

Dave

[scythefwd]

Well, in all fairness that's what the Boss system is suppose to do. Now, again....I don't own a Browning. So, I don't own the Boss system. I've never seen one actually being worked with, nor do I even know anyone who has actually shot one and "worked with" the boss system. So, I can't really tell you how well or how "not well" they either do or don't do. In other words, I have no opinion on 'em.

But, I do know that if I had a Browning, I would still reload for it. At the price of factory....I'm reloading. And, I buy rifles and handguns to shoot year round. Not just once a month to hunt with. Some guys do...and that's just fine as that's all the time they have. But for me...it's my hobby...my past time.



Your right. I have a Marlin and a few Winchesters that are incredibly accurate. The ladder testing is something that I do when working up a load to see where the sweet spots are. Again, I'd probably do it with a Browning as well. But again, this is my hobby...so time isn't an overriding factor.

FWIW

Dave


Dont get me wrong, I'd reload for it too.. I'm a cheap summgun.. which is why I own a savage.

[kevin_stevens]

Because the BOSS system allows you to shoot sub moa with just about any factory load? I understand this is a savage forum and all, but Savage doesn't have the corner on accurate rifles. I'd love to be able to go out and buy a couple of boxes of ammo, and by the end of the two boxes have it shooting sub-moa instead of taking my time and doing a ladder test a couple times (my savage is a 30-06, first ladder is 10 rounds each, 1gr incriments.. 43, 44, 45, 46,47... find the best couple, second ladder test is between the two best shooting groups, .2 gr incriments, then the last between the best two groups, thats NOT a small amout of time invested).

You have to do the same thing with the BOSS, you're just turning the weight to different positions instead of loading different rounds. It's not like you can just dial it to the magic number, you have to sort of plot the accuracy variances for a given round and then record which one works best.

It does work well, and it's great for us factory ammo users, but it's just a tool, not a solution. It requires application.

KeS

[stomp442]

I shoot with a guy in our monthly matches that uses door hinges screwed together tightly around his Barrels. That's his solution to barrel deresonating and since he has won the match on more than one occasion I would say it works. Personally I prefer floating the barrel and tuning the load to the barrel. Once in awhile I come across a rifle that likes some fore end pressure and I use a piece of cardboard under the barrel to test it.

[davemuzz]

I shoot with a guy in our monthly matches that uses door hinges screwed together tightly around his Barrels..

HMmmmmm.......I hope no one from the press shoots with you guys. I could see it now. His door hinge would come loose....he would get mad and say something like "Darn it" and throw his screwdriver on the ground.

Then.....the next day on the front page....."LONG RANGE SHOOTER BECOMES UN-HINGED"

You know how the press can get.

[stomp442]

Lol yeah sadly that is probly not far from the truth.

[fgw_in_fla]

Here's an idea for a nice stout recoil lug that should help tighten those groups a little...

http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/gunsmithing/barrel-block-on-savage-action-f-tr-rig/

With all the reading, research, experimenting & tinkering I have done with barrels for harmonic related issues, I'd almost like to think it's better to use harmonics to your advantage rather than try to dampen or alter the situation. Once you locate that sweet spot with the factory stuff or home rolled ammo all you need is a little consistancy & the cloverleafs should follow.
I always seem to find the scatter node first. Actually, most of my shooting looks like the scatter node....

Several weeks ago I was shooting next to a guy that had one of those rubber yuk -a - puks on his barrel. When he started sliding it toward the muzzle, by only about 1.5", If I hadn't witnessed it I would have called BS!. It was amazing how that rubber yuk-a-puk tightened up the Rem Core-Lokt ammo he was shooting. And, it was repeateable. I would never have believed it....

Good luck with your project-
Frank in Fla

[reloader]

thanks fgw in fla for the validation ! yes i agree they are ugly, almost the same thing happened to me. i was out a local 100-300 yard range and fellow had one on his 257 roberts and it brought his groups down to 1/2"-3/4" at a hundred, where as before he was shooting 1 1/2" at 100. yes they are ugly but if they work hey what can i say

[jonbearman]

Brownells has the que brake which is licensed by browning.It works the same way and they have many adaptor rings for different barrel sizes.I think they are about 200.00. You can install one your self using a bernzomatic torch,you heat the adaptor and slide it on the barrel as directed and it will shrink in a couple seconds and let it cool.Your done.It also is a muzzle brake.

[oldman10mm]

Since the Limbsaver de-resonator seems objectionable because of its' appearance sitting on the barrel,has anyone tried a length,say 2"-6",of automotive hose? It's available in different IDs',and ODs' due to different PSI ratings, and black.

[davemuzz]

Since the Limbsaver de-resonator seems objectionable because of its' appearance sitting on the barIrel,has anyone tried a length,say 2"-6",of automotive hose? It's available in different IDs',and ODs' due to different PSI ratings, and black.

That IMHO, would be the Doughnut's ugly sister. The "fix" to getting true and consistent barrel harmonics on a pillar stock, is to properly bed the rifle action to the stock. When this is done, the action will have solid contact with the stock and provide consistent harmonics to the barrel. As opposed to just being screwed onto the stock and touching at random points where factors such as heat, moisture, and cold will effect harmonics one each shot.

The "new to Savage" accustock, and other aftermarket stocks that provide a full aluminum block bedded system support almost 100% of the rifle receiver to the aluminum block, and the block is fastened to the stock, thus providing consistent harmonics.

So, if you want style and accuracy, buy a more expensive aluminum block bedded system, or bed your piller stock....or just go with what you have....or hang an ugly doughnut off the barrel!!!!

Dave

[bigedp51]

A military rifle goes through a trials period and the rifle is tuned to standard issued military ammunition. This can be controlled by up pressure at the fore end tip, putting steps in the barrel at the vibration node points and other methods. The bottom line here is the rifle is adjusted and tuned to shoot a specific ammunition.

A standard bedded Remington 700 rifle had 3 to 9 pounds of up pressure at the fore end tip used to control barrel vibrations on these sporter weight barrels. My two Stevens 200 (Savage) rifles have free floating barrels and they were designed from the ground up to deliver their best overall accuracy that way, and can be fine tuned with hand loads.

If you remove the up pressure from rifles designed to have it in most cases the accuracy will be worse.

Light sporter weight barrels will normally shoot better with up pressure at the fore end tip.

Heavy weight barrels will generally shoot better when free floated.

There are hundreds of ways to tune and bed a rifle and to say free floating a barrel is the best way to do it is a little delusional and self defeating.

[stomp442]

Every Remington I have ever messed with shot better when taking the up pressure away.